Extreme Engine Failure: Phosphorus

[md_lucky_13]

Well, now that I have managed to make a complete fool of myself, HERE is the RAW data that Terry gave permission to post.

This shows how important it is to CAREFULLY read e-mails.




http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img38&img=/9/7/17/f_f150oilrepom_63100f3.jpg

 

[md_lucky_13]

You know how some people learn to quit while they are ahead?

I'm the kid in the corner that MADE the square fit in the circle hole.

Last attempt at this picture stuff. Hopefully this one is readable.



http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/9/7/17/f_f150oilrepom_372d21c.jpg

 

[dnewton3]

md lucky 13 -
is it possible to start the truck? I wondered if you could drain the oil/syrup, install fresh oil and filter? You may have to heat the oil pan with a small torch to get it to run out. Then, try to get it running enough to warm it up and do a pressure test on the coolant system. If it's a coolant leak, you'll have the answer if you can DUPLICATE the failure of the oil.

I know that there is an extreme possibility that all the bearings are already fried, but I'm not talking about returning it just yet to the customer. I just think it would be a step in the right direction to be able to make the oil gel up a second time. If you can replicate the problem, it will be much easier to diagnose. Also, is there an oil-safe dye that could be added to the coolant that would be a tell-tale sign if it showed up in the oil?

If the problem can be duplicated, then the problem is most likely with the engine, such as major coolant leak. If the problem cannot be dupliated, it would more likely be an issue of mistake/sabotage. Could someone have "topped off" the coolant by accidentally pouring some coolant into the oil filler neck by mistake? Silly things happen, you know.

 

[bruce381]

Has water in it and low CA could be from it reacting with acid and droping out of solution as sludge BUT why is P so high, either lab has error or something else has / was added P is 10x to high. I'd say at this point more than coolant leak maybe owner put in bottle of anti freeze??
clothes washing soap?? by mistake?

bruce

 

[md_lucky_13]

This is the second report on the oil. Both reports showed extremely high Phosphorus, so I don't know that it is a lab error.

We cannot re-start the engine. It is entirely siezed. I don't know that even warming the engine would help. I wish I had taken pictures of the gelled oil. I have never seen anything like it.

I don't know that the coolant was directly added to the oil, just as I don't know it wasn't. The owner is competant enough to know better, but we can all make mistakes. We are now focusing on this as a component failure, not sabotage. Hopefully Ford will agree.

 

[4esorselrahc]

Quote:

---

Has water in it and low CA could be from it reacting with acid and droping out of solution as sludge BUT why is P so high, either lab has error or something else has / was added P is 10x to high. I'd say at this point more than coolant leak maybe owner put in bottle of anti freeze??
clothes washing soap?? by mistake?

bruce

---

Yeah, I was wondering if someone had actually poured some antifreeze into the crankcase. It sure looks like it to me. And maybe some soap to clean things up?

 

[dnewton3]

I have to tell a sad/funny story on myself, that relates to this thread.

Years ago I was changing tranny oil in my wife's Villager van. Got around to adding the fluid and couldn't find a traditional funnel, so I improvised and used a piece of paper rolled into a cone shape; it worked great! Put in about a 6 quarts of DEX III/Mercon (measured what came out). Took it on the road for a quick drive and then pulled back in to measure the trans level. Tranny fluid was so low it didn't measure on the trans dipstick. Hmmmmm .... I pulled the engine oil dipstick and it was WAY OVER FULL with an engine/tranny mix. Oh, CR*P! I had put the homemade funnel into the ENGINE oil dipstick tube by mistake! I was so tired from working a 14 hour day that I was half-crazed with a lack of sleep and just plain half-stupid. I drained and filled the engine and replaced filter; I then put the six quarts in the TRANNY this time.

Moral of the story? I put the wrong fluid into the wrong hole, EVEN THOUGH I KNEW BETTER! What do you want to be this guy, or someone well meaning, put antifreeze into the engine oil by mistake?

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

---

I have to tell a sad/funny story on myself, that relates to this thread.

Years ago I was changing tranny oil in my wife's Villager van. Got around to adding the fluid and couldn't find a traditional funnel, so I improvised and used a piece of paper rolled into a cone shape; it worked great! Put in about a 6 quarts of DEX III/Mercon (measured what came out). Took it on the road for a quick drive and then pulled back in to measure the trans level. Tranny fluid was so low it didn't measure on the trans dipstick. Hmmmmm .... I pulled the engine oil dipstick and it was WAY OVER FULL with an engine/tranny mix. Oh, CR*P! I had put the homemade funnel into the ENGINE oil dipstick tube by mistake!

---

I think your story is bogus. The typical engine dipstick tube is about 8mm in diameter. Even if you were able to fashion a paper funnel to fit, it would take you a couple of hours to pour six quarts of oil into the engine that way.

 

[md_lucky_13]

Well, nothing new.

I'm half tempted to pull this entire thread down though. It doesn't look like anyone is stepping up to the plate, and the last thing I want is for this to end up in some lawsuit and my simple act of kindness get ME sued on top of everything else..

What is this world coming to.

 

[The Critic]

Quote:

---

I think your story is bogus. The typical engine dipstick tube is about 8mm in diameter. Even if you were able to fashion a paper funnel to fit, it would take you a couple of hours to pour six quarts of oil into the engine that way.

---

The transmission dipstick tube on a Honda V6 is about the same size as the engine oil dipstick tube. Still, I have a hard time believing that one would be able to take a car for a drive around the block if the transmission was six quarts low.

 

[d00df00d]

Quote:

---

Well, nothing new.

I'm half tempted to pull this entire thread down though. It doesn't look like anyone is stepping up to the plate, and the last thing I want is for this to end up in some lawsuit and my simple act of kindness get ME sued on top of everything else..

What is this world coming to.

---

Sued on what grounds?

 

[dnewton3]

G-man & Critic - I'm not making it up; I did exactly what I stated. The paper cone I had made fit quite well into the engine dipstick tube, which is conincidentlally nearly the same size as the trans dipstick. It sure didn't take "a couple of hours" to pour in either; it was several minutes, which isn't much different than using the correct fluid in the correct hole with the correct funnel like I did the second time. And yes, the trans actually drove being that low. I'm also supprised that the engine didn't sound "funny" at the time with more than twice the fluid splashing around inside. The van is just fine; it has 151k miles on it, my wife still drives it, and I just had a Blackstone oil sample done on the tranny recently; all was fine.

Still, it happened, it's true, and if you gentlemen would like to come to Indianapolis and buy the fluids and filter, I'll do it again just to prove I'm right. I will graciously provide the beer! Otherwise I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree ...

 

[bruce381]

""Both reports showed extremely high Phosphorus, so I don't know that it is a lab error.""

Same Lab??

If so then Id try different lab maybe there calibration for P is out of wack that is just way to high and if NOT interference with some other element (again lab error) then Something was added or a lot of coolant was leaked.

I'm NOT a coolant expert but do coolants have high P and Low sodium?? to validate a coolant leak I guess test the coolant too if very high P and low sodium then coolant leak looks good otherwsie where the [censored] is P comeing from?


bruce

 

[oilyriser]

I bet even pure coolant doesn't have this much P. Gear oil doesn't, either.

 

[md_lucky_13]

These were 2 different labs that came back with the reports.

The first lab is based out of Portland, Or. I'm not familiar with them at all.

The second lab was Terry Dyson's operation. I have faith in his lab to get the results correct, although any can make a mistake.


What could I get sued for? Who knows now-a-days. Disclosing customer information maybe.. Ford information.. Heck, at least I didn't lose the guys pants.. Lawyers.

 

[Seth]

Over the shelf coolants (especially the ones sold at dealerships) come without water. They are supposed to be mixed 50/50 with distilled water.

What if this guy noticed low coolant, and dumped new coolant in without mixing it with water? Ofcourse, just because there is coolant in oil, doesnt mean that this problem noted by OP is due to it. BTW, I still dont get the lawsuit part.