I am thinking someone put gear oil in there... or worse sodapop in the gas tank, I wish you could sample this oil, inquiring minds need specs to speculate...
Extreme Engine Failure: Phosphorus
- Thread starter md_lucky_13
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liquid lecithin?
I was thinking gear oil and since it has a very different add pack it's behavior is different under the conditions in the engine.
Alright.. I have more info, but it doesn't mean much to me.
I asked if they had any oil left over, and they do. I will be sending a sample out to blackstone ASAP.
Here is what the other company sent:
Ash 17.7
Spectrochemical Analysis using ASTM D5184:
Aluminum: .02
Barium: Calcium: 1.01
Chromium: Copper: .01
Iron: .37 Potassium: Magnesium: .05
Manganese: .01
Molybdenum: .01
Sodium: .06 Nickel: Phosphorus: 3.10 Lead: Silicon: .01 Tin: Titanium: Vanadium: Zinc: .17
I pointed out a few things that I thought were interesting. Nearly no silicon from what I can tell (no af failure). Check out the Iron.. I thought it would be off the charts X 100 for a failed engine.
The potassium was extremely low for what I would expect to see in a coolant failure..
I have hesitated posting which oil he used, because I do NOT beleive it was the oil's fault..
I DO beleive foul play is involved here. I think something was added, I just don't have any idea what.
The oil was Castrol GTX 5w20.
I'm not so hip on interpreting this report, so I hope blackstone can send something that I fully understand.
I asked if they had any oil left over, and they do. I will be sending a sample out to blackstone ASAP.
Here is what the other company sent:
Ash 17.7
Spectrochemical Analysis using ASTM D5184:
Aluminum: .02
Barium: Calcium: 1.01
Chromium: Copper: .01
Iron: .37 Potassium: Magnesium: .05
Manganese: .01
Molybdenum: .01
Sodium: .06 Nickel: Phosphorus: 3.10 Lead: Silicon: .01 Tin: Titanium: Vanadium: Zinc: .17
I pointed out a few things that I thought were interesting. Nearly no silicon from what I can tell (no af failure). Check out the Iron.. I thought it would be off the charts X 100 for a failed engine.
The potassium was extremely low for what I would expect to see in a coolant failure..
I have hesitated posting which oil he used, because I do NOT beleive it was the oil's fault..
I DO beleive foul play is involved here. I think something was added, I just don't have any idea what.
The oil was Castrol GTX 5w20.
I'm not so hip on interpreting this report, so I hope blackstone can send something that I fully understand.
Where could you send a fuel sample?
I'm thinking about getting that done also.
I'm thinking about getting that done also.
I would recommend getting a Dyson Analysis from Blackstone labs. Infact if I would be your I would contact Terry first. I think that Analyst Inc does fuel testing but I am not 100% sure. It will be interesting to see what the outcome is.
Thanks,
-Ankur
Thanks,
-Ankur
IIRC, I asked Blackstone about it a while back and they said they could do it too, although the prices were pretty steep, depending on what specific tests had to be done. And if my memory serves me wrong, then at least Blackstone will be able to suggest some other labs that can do fuel analysis for you.
Not sure what those numbers represent from that lab. I tried multiplying by 1000, 10,000 to get PPM but the results made no sense either way.
I am willing to bet it is a factor of 10,000 to get ppm from that report. It also seems that the labs level of resolution is 100ppm at this level of reporting. Either way if the factor is 1000 or 10,000, the iron is sky high relative to the other numbers which is in line for the condition of the engine you described. Phosophorus is astronomically high relatively speaking in those numbers, another reason I am going with a fator of 10^4, or about 31,000 ppm. Sodium would then be 600ppm, Calcium 10,100ppm, Fe 3700ppm, Aluminum 200ppm, Zinc 1700ppm.
It does indeed look like someone intentionally spiked this engine with a foreign contaminant like phosphoric acid. Or maybe it is a phosphate coolant and the silicate levels are too low to show significantly at this level of reporting, since I don't know all that much about levels of elements in coolants?
No test for H2O listed so assume it was not run?
It does indeed look like someone intentionally spiked this engine with a foreign contaminant like phosphoric acid. Or maybe it is a phosphate coolant and the silicate levels are too low to show significantly at this level of reporting, since I don't know all that much about levels of elements in coolants?
No test for H2O listed so assume it was not run?
I was guessing 1000. Still the numbers are whacked. And if so, someone did a clean squeazed poop down the filler hole while hunkered over the engine in doggie grunt mode. Either that or a coke and some chips.....
If the test was indeed ASTM D 5184, the results should be reported in mg/kg (ppm). The problem is that ASTM D 5184 is technically for aluminum and silicon as in "Test Methods for Determination of Aluminum and Silicon in Fuel Oils by Ashing, Fusion, Inductively Coupled Plasma Atomic Emission Spectrometry, and Atomic Absorption Spectrometry". They could have modified the test, but the report should state so.
I would send to Terry directly & let him send to the lab he has contracted out to do analysis. He will be able to give a real read on what has happened. He is qualified as an expert witness in court case.
Boy what a mess. I hope you can figure it out.
I spoke to Terry for a while today on the subject.
What an incredibly intelligent and kind individual.
I'm going to try to get the service deparment to have him look at another sample. Its too bad they wasted their time and money on this other lab.. Now they are a little gun shy and don't know if they want to spend the extra money.
I flat asked them. Whats cheaper, a reputable report that will hold up in court, or an engine?
We will see what they decide. I may contact the customer directly and make the suggestion to him. The insurance company came and took a sample of the oil. As far as I can tell, this is quickly going to become a case of he said vs she said.. With the poor customer on one side fighting the insurance company on the other. In my opinion, its worth the analysis just to have a leg to stand on IF the insurance company tries to deny claim.
In any case, I know who will be receiving my PERSONAL oil samples from now on!
What an incredibly intelligent and kind individual.
I'm going to try to get the service deparment to have him look at another sample. Its too bad they wasted their time and money on this other lab.. Now they are a little gun shy and don't know if they want to spend the extra money.
I flat asked them. Whats cheaper, a reputable report that will hold up in court, or an engine?
We will see what they decide. I may contact the customer directly and make the suggestion to him. The insurance company came and took a sample of the oil. As far as I can tell, this is quickly going to become a case of he said vs she said.. With the poor customer on one side fighting the insurance company on the other. In my opinion, its worth the analysis just to have a leg to stand on IF the insurance company tries to deny claim.
In any case, I know who will be receiving my PERSONAL oil samples from now on!
I know our dealership did not do the oil change.
If I recall correctly, he did the oil change himself.
If I recall correctly, he did the oil change himself.
No.
But we are not your average dealership.
Just another benefit to living in small town Idaho. I still give a rats behind about taking care of our customers.
But we are not your average dealership.
Just another benefit to living in small town Idaho. I still give a rats behind about taking care of our customers.
I can tell. Keep it up. Wish there were more of you around.
Could someone have replaced the oil in the bottle with something else than returned it to the store as new? Then your customer bought it?
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