Exchange Boron for Moly as Additive ?
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With Shell Products yes it seems that way however the new Mobil 5000 and Valvoline do not have either. They seem to prefer the less costly sodium. I tell you the voa of the new sn Mobil 5000 makes the price of $11.50 in Wally about just right. Maybe even a dollar too much. Looks like water in some ways.I know the titanium is added, but i heard you can get that stuff dirt cheap. Looks like rip off oil is making the rounds.
IMHO
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
I see with certain oils that if the Moly content is low - the Boron content is usually high . Are both Boron and Moly the typical friction modifiers in oil additives (i.e. if one isn't present - the other one usually is ) ?
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
I see with certain oils that if the Moly content is low - the Boron content is usually high . Are both Boron and Moly the typical friction modifiers in oil additives (i.e. if one isn't present - the other one usually is ) ?
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
With Shell Products yes it seems that way however the new Mobil 5000 and Valvoline do not have either. They seem to prefer the less costly sodium. I tell you the voa of the new sn Mobil 5000 makes the price of $11.50 in Wally about just right. Maybe even a dollar too much. Looks like water in some ways.I know the titanium is added, but i heard you can get that stuff dirt cheap. Looks like rip off oil is making the rounds.
IMHO
Allow me to wholeheartedly disagree. A VOA can't tell you much (at least not much about the additives. It can tell you lots about contamination [water, fuel, manufacturing issues], and grade), but when it comes to the additives, it's of less value. One of the oils you talked about was Valvoline, they are probably king of the poor-looking VOAs. Their oils looks lame in a VOA, but in a used oil analysis they hold up very well.
With Shell Products yes it seems that way however the new Mobil 5000 and Valvoline do not have either. They seem to prefer the less costly sodium. I tell you the voa of the new sn Mobil 5000 makes the price of $11.50 in Wally about just right. Maybe even a dollar too much. Looks like water in some ways.I know the titanium is added, but i heard you can get that stuff dirt cheap. Looks like rip off oil is making the rounds.
Allow me to wholeheartedly disagree. A VOA can't tell you much (at least not much about the additives. It can tell you lots about contamination [water, fuel, manufacturing issues], and grade), but when it comes to the additives, it's of less value. One of the oils you talked about was Valvoline, they are probably king of the poor-looking VOAs. Their oils looks lame in a VOA, but in a used oil analysis they hold up very well.
OK - let me address it another way : I'm trying to look past the marketing hype and find a SN rated conventional oil that offers excellent wear protection along with good detergent to keep the engine clean . A number of posters here say : " Look for an oil with a good shot of Moly in it for wear protection " . Those new SN rated conventional oils with a good shot of moly included would be ___ ?
http://www.pqiamerica.com/testresultsFeb2011.html
Check out these and their other tests.
A very nice quick guide in one place.
Check out these and their other tests.
A very nice quick guide in one place.
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Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
OK - let me address it another way : I'm trying to look past the marketing hype and find a SN rated conventional oil that offers excellent wear protection along with good detergent to keep the engine clean . A number of posters here say : " Look for an oil with a good shot of Moly in it for wear protection " . Those new SN rated conventional oils with a good shot of moly included would be ___ ?
You really need to try a search first. Then break it down to if you want Synthetic or not. On the synthetic side you can run Redline. I personally use it, and its one of a few oils on the market that use allot of Moly.
Jeff
OK - let me address it another way : I'm trying to look past the marketing hype and find a SN rated conventional oil that offers excellent wear protection along with good detergent to keep the engine clean . A number of posters here say : " Look for an oil with a good shot of Moly in it for wear protection " . Those new SN rated conventional oils with a good shot of moly included would be ___ ?
You really need to try a search first. Then break it down to if you want Synthetic or not. On the synthetic side you can run Redline. I personally use it, and its one of a few oils on the market that use allot of Moly.
Jeff
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Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
OK - let me address it another way : I'm trying to look past the marketing hype and find a SN rated conventional oil that offers excellent wear protection along with good detergent to keep the engine clean . A number of posters here say : " Look for an oil with a good shot of Moly in it for wear protection " . Those new SN rated conventional oils with a good shot of moly included would be ___ ?
You really need to try a search first. Then break it down to if you want Synthetic or not. On the synthetic side you can run Redline. I personally use it, and its one of a few oils on the market that use allot of Moly.
Jeff
Dont forget RP
:nono:
Also, as to additive.. try TUNGSTEN!
Or Mos2 Moly. Thats fine too
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
OK - let me address it another way : I'm trying to look past the marketing hype and find a SN rated conventional oil that offers excellent wear protection along with good detergent to keep the engine clean . A number of posters here say : " Look for an oil with a good shot of Moly in it for wear protection " . Those new SN rated conventional oils with a good shot of moly included would be ___ ?
You really need to try a search first. Then break it down to if you want Synthetic or not. On the synthetic side you can run Redline. I personally use it, and its one of a few oils on the market that use allot of Moly.
Jeff
Dont forget RP
Also, as to additive.. try TUNGSTEN!
Or Mos2 Moly. Thats fine too
For Moly deficient oils I add some TufOil at 1 ounce per quart. I add this to Dino as well as "Synthetic" oils to make sure that my engine has a steady of Moly.
I don't add it to Formula Shell Dino since it's loaded with Moly and I won't be adding it to Pennzoil Conventional in the future with any SN GF-5, since it now has a big dose of Moly in the add pack.
But for synthetics like Valvoline SynPower, NAPA synthetic, Mobil EP, Mobil 1, SuperTech and Advance Auto Synthetic they will get a dose of TufOil. A little Moly will help and I don't see the harm.
I don't add it to Formula Shell Dino since it's loaded with Moly and I won't be adding it to Pennzoil Conventional in the future with any SN GF-5, since it now has a big dose of Moly in the add pack.
But for synthetics like Valvoline SynPower, NAPA synthetic, Mobil EP, Mobil 1, SuperTech and Advance Auto Synthetic they will get a dose of TufOil. A little Moly will help and I don't see the harm.
You mean uoa cannot tell you much not voa. Contamination would be in the uoa. Take a look at the Toyota and Honda voa on their 0-20 oil. That voa tells you alot about what these oils offer. Then compare it with the light weights I mentioned. In my opinion Mobil 5000 cheapened their SN product.
quote=tinmanSC]
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
With Shell Products yes it seems that way however the new Mobil 5000 and Valvoline do not have either. They seem to prefer the less costly sodium. I tell you the voa of the new sn Mobil 5000 makes the price of $11.50 in Wally about just right. Maybe even a dollar too much. Looks like water in some ways.I know the titanium is added, but i heard you can get that stuff dirt cheap. Looks like rip off oil is making the rounds.
IMHO
Allow me to wholeheartedly disagree. A VOA can't tell you much (at least not much about the additives. It can tell you lots about contamination [water, fuel, manufacturing issues], and grade), but when it comes to the additives, it's of less value. One of the oils you talked about was Valvoline, they are probably king of the poor-looking VOAs. Their oils looks lame in a VOA, but in a used oil analysis they hold up very well. [/quote]
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
With Shell Products yes it seems that way however the new Mobil 5000 and Valvoline do not have either. They seem to prefer the less costly sodium. I tell you the voa of the new sn Mobil 5000 makes the price of $11.50 in Wally about just right. Maybe even a dollar too much. Looks like water in some ways.I know the titanium is added, but i heard you can get that stuff dirt cheap. Looks like rip off oil is making the rounds.
Allow me to wholeheartedly disagree. A VOA can't tell you much (at least not much about the additives. It can tell you lots about contamination [water, fuel, manufacturing issues], and grade), but when it comes to the additives, it's of less value. One of the oils you talked about was Valvoline, they are probably king of the poor-looking VOAs. Their oils looks lame in a VOA, but in a used oil analysis they hold up very well. [/quote]
Here is a link from the PQIA on the VOA of Quaker State Dino (Green Bottle), SM GF-4. Other than the Moly is has a very good add pack. I don't know about the SN, GF-5 since I've not seen any VOA or UOA on the oil as of this date. Maybe someone else has and will post a link for you.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/quakerstatelabelrevnew.htm
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Mongo161: Were you referring to Formula Shell SN or SM rated ? Hopefully , the SN will continue with a decent ammount of Moly . Also , what about Quaker State SN rated dino - any decent Moly add pack there ?
http://www.pqiamerica.com/quakerstatelabelrevnew.htm
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Mongo161: Were you referring to Formula Shell SN or SM rated ? Hopefully , the SN will continue with a decent ammount of Moly . Also , what about Quaker State SN rated dino - any decent Moly add pack there ?
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Originally Posted By: SuperFast
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
OK - let me address it another way : I'm trying to look past the marketing hype and find a SN rated conventional oil that offers excellent wear protection along with good detergent to keep the engine clean . A number of posters here say : " Look for an oil with a good shot of Moly in it for wear protection " . Those new SN rated conventional oils with a good shot of moly included would be ___ ?
You really need to try a search first. Then break it down to if you want Synthetic or not. On the synthetic side you can run Redline. I personally use it, and its one of a few oils on the market that use allot of Moly.
Jeff
Dont forget RP
:nono:
Also, as to additive.. try TUNGSTEN!
Or Mos2 Moly. Thats fine too
Where RP does have more Moly than most oils it pales in comparison to Redline. Redline is in the 800ppm+ while RP is in the mid 100's ppm.
I was thinking he wanted HIGH molly. Is why I recommended Redline.
Jeff
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
OK - let me address it another way : I'm trying to look past the marketing hype and find a SN rated conventional oil that offers excellent wear protection along with good detergent to keep the engine clean . A number of posters here say : " Look for an oil with a good shot of Moly in it for wear protection " . Those new SN rated conventional oils with a good shot of moly included would be ___ ?
You really need to try a search first. Then break it down to if you want Synthetic or not. On the synthetic side you can run Redline. I personally use it, and its one of a few oils on the market that use allot of Moly.
Jeff
Dont forget RP
Also, as to additive.. try TUNGSTEN!
Or Mos2 Moly. Thats fine too
Where RP does have more Moly than most oils it pales in comparison to Redline. Redline is in the 800ppm+ while RP is in the mid 100's ppm.
I was thinking he wanted HIGH molly. Is why I recommended Redline.
Jeff
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Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Although Redline is an excellent product , I was looking for oil I can obtain at Walmart , AAP , etc.
I don't think you will find an oil that is high in Moly at a local store. Only one that has more moly than average is Royal Purple. The Average being the other PAO based Synthetics and Conventional oil on the market. RP has Moly in the 100-200ppm range where as most oils are under 100. Redline is over 800ppm. To me its worth ordering, but thats just me.
I do understand the "conveinence factor" though. To me ordering is no big deal. I order online its at my doorstep in 3 days. What sucks is the shipping charges. That can add up, but buy in bulk is saves money over the long haul.
You may have some good luck with other oils that are not high in moly. Maybe try the Kendall GT that you can buy at Autozone with liquid Titanium. I hear that is a decent oil. Just depends on if your willing to experiment. For me, the Redline has worked wonders over the other oils I have used thus far. I will see how the used oil analysis look over time.
Jeff
Although Redline is an excellent product , I was looking for oil I can obtain at Walmart , AAP , etc.
I don't think you will find an oil that is high in Moly at a local store. Only one that has more moly than average is Royal Purple. The Average being the other PAO based Synthetics and Conventional oil on the market. RP has Moly in the 100-200ppm range where as most oils are under 100. Redline is over 800ppm. To me its worth ordering, but thats just me.
I do understand the "conveinence factor" though. To me ordering is no big deal. I order online its at my doorstep in 3 days. What sucks is the shipping charges. That can add up, but buy in bulk is saves money over the long haul.
You may have some good luck with other oils that are not high in moly. Maybe try the Kendall GT that you can buy at Autozone with liquid Titanium. I hear that is a decent oil. Just depends on if your willing to experiment. For me, the Redline has worked wonders over the other oils I have used thus far. I will see how the used oil analysis look over time.
Jeff
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I get my Red Line at Racer Parts Wharehouse online and if you order a case, you get a pretty big discount and free shipping. Tough to beat their price and shipping is super fast.
Pennzoil SN has over 200ppm of moly, just to throw that out there. Yellow Bottle that is.
Pennzoil SN has over 200ppm of moly, just to throw that out there. Yellow Bottle that is.
I forgot, to answer your question further...
Havoline DS and Formula Shell both have a healthy shot of Moly.
p.s. Just to make a correction... it is Red Line and not Redline. I wouldn't point this out anywhere else, but this is BitoG so we are kind of oil anal; that and it's almost always spelled Redline here for some reason.
Havoline DS and Formula Shell both have a healthy shot of Moly.
p.s. Just to make a correction... it is Red Line and not Redline. I wouldn't point this out anywhere else, but this is BitoG so we are kind of oil anal; that and it's almost always spelled Redline here for some reason.
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Havoline SN doesn't have moly, Mobil Clean 5000 used to have moly too.
Havoline SN
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/havoline-5w30-sn.153736/
Mobil SN
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-super-5000-5w30-sn-gf5.149159/
Some of the High Mileage oils like, Valvoline Maxlife, have more moly, but are not usually SN/GF-5 rated.
I don't know of any high moly SN oils off the top of my head.
Havoline SN
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/havoline-5w30-sn.153736/
Mobil SN
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-super-5000-5w30-sn-gf5.149159/
Some of the High Mileage oils like, Valvoline Maxlife, have more moly, but are not usually SN/GF-5 rated.
I don't know of any high moly SN oils off the top of my head.
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Wonder if you have to bump up to 10W40 to get the good dose of moly and zinc?
It would appear that a lot of SN oils have eliminated or reduced moly in their add pack. We're all used to associating higher moly with better wear protection (boron too). There's obviously something in the SN formulation that accounts for this trend. On the bright side, from what I'm seeing in the initial used oil analysis of the SN oils, wear protection appears excellent so something in the overall formulations is doing the job even with the lower moly/boron adds. For the die-hard moly fans (like me), this may take a little getting used to.
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