EV or PHEV, which fits best?

[OVERKILL]

First thought is "happy wife - happy life", BUT, is this "your" ride or hers? The impression is the RAM is her ride and the SRT is yours. You've always been about high performance since I've been around here so 2 questions. Will the X5 scratch that itch well enough? Does the M50 fix whatever you didn't like about the Audi enough to live with it?

Tough spot trying to choose between those 2

Good questions! And yes, I've had the same concerns.

The M50 vs the e-tron? Not even a contest. The M50 drives like a performance saloon with massively more power, crisp handling, does "creep" and it pipes noise in through the audio system so it isn't deathly quiet like the e-tron. It's like BMW intentionally determined what things bugged people about EV's vs ICE cars and went about addressing them.

 

[edyvw]

Yeah, we aren't looking to do any sort of move right at the moment as any of the new ones are missing a few nice features like the HK sound system and the wireless charging. So most dealers aren't even ordering Premium Enhanced, because you can't get a large part of the package.

This is more a planning exercise, as I've now driven the i4, and it impressed the socks off of me, but going forward, we all see the way things are going, and PHEV and EV are going to be "it" in the near future. I like the flexibility aspect of the PHEV, but the performance of the full EV is undeniable and I think BMW hit it out of the park with the M50, I absolutely loved it.

I know HK and other amenities issues are due to chip shortage. Do they offer BO?
Considering this HK issue, if we get 45e, which is going to be slightly used, I will just add DIY audio.

 

[OVERKILL]

I know HK and other amenities issues are due to chip shortage. Do they offer BO?
Considering this HK issue, if we get 45e, which is going to be slightly used, I will just add DIY audio.

Not sure, the dealers I've spoken to haven't offered it, that's for sure. They are ordering Premium Essentials, with HUD. It's a weird way they are coming.

 

[Nick1994]

After my short stint with the Tesla, I think PHEV is the way to go. It can do it all.

 

[Schandyman]

I'm all for fully ev's. I was 99% set on the VW Id.4 but I kept myself victim to Toyota for another 3 yrs. When my lease is up I'll be ready to buy and stop the leasing saga and hopefully vw ev's will be made here in Tennessee. Looking towards the new e microbus now over the id.4

 

[UncleDave]

Say you were considering two vehicles that are NOT similar (oh yes, this is fun!). One is a PHEV SUV, the other is a full EV performance sedan. Your usage profile means both will "work", but the PHEV being more versatile, would allow for a usage scenario where you'd otherwise have to take your backup gas vehicle, as the EV would increase the required time for travel by at least a day and add significant frustration (think 1,500km drive).

The PHEV has around 50km of full electric range however (24kWh battery), which means 90% of the usage profile could be in full EV mode (based on current driving patterns). It's luxurious, rides extremely well, and is, of course, absolutely gorgeous. Gas usage would only be required for trips out of town (rare) and driving to the cottage in the summer. It has significant interior room and a decent amount of power, at 389HP. Gas mileage is 50mpge combined electric+gas, 20mpg combined city/highway with no electric, 26mpg highway with no electric.

The manufacturer has been making PHEV's for quite a while now and the PHEV powertrain is a ZF product with basically an electric motor replacing the torque converter.

The other contender is a fully electric sedan. It's smaller inside, is a car, so clearly lower to the ground and nowhere near as spacious. It however, has absolutely intoxicating acceleration and performance. It's a first model year though, so that might raise a red flag for some. Interior appointments aren't quite as upscale as the PHEV, but it's also less expensive.

Your significant other likes the PHEV better than the EV due to the ride height and practicality and says you don't need a 534HP sedan because you've now passed 40, lol.

So, in this hypothetical scenario, would you go practical (how I suspect the voting will go) or performance?

Ye Olde practical vs. fun conundrum.

Sadly - it almost always makes sense to bias toward practicality if you can only have one.

PHEV's work pretty well, and its really too bad the voltec platform never got expanded.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Your significant other likes the PHEV better than the EV due to the ride height and practicality and says you don't need a 534HP sedan because you've now passed 40, lol.

Is there really any question of how this is going to go down?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Guess the main question with the PHEV is the 50 km range on battery adequate? Would you be charging it every day or rwo if using the vehicle daily, and is that acceptable?

 

[OVERKILL]

Guess the main question with the PHEV is the 50 km range on battery adequate? Would you be charging it every day or rwo if using the vehicle daily, and is that acceptable?

Yes. Most driving around town is less than 25km a day, it would just get plugged in at the end of the day overnight.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes. Most driving around town is less than 25km a day, it would just get plugged in at the end of the day overnight.

For those not so familiar with EV ownership as @OVERKILL and I, this is pretty much standard operating procedure.
Starting every day with a full tank has to be experienced.

If I may, this brings up an important corollary point: make sure you know how you are gonna charge before you consider buying an EV. Be sure to understand what upgrades you may need for home charging. Upgrades can be substantial and expensive.

 

[Schandyman]

I'd have a dedicated 50a circuit for ev charging. My sister rents and that's her prob she wants a Tesla but would be finding herself plugging into the standard household electric.

 

[Schandyman]

For those not so familiar with EV ownership as @OVERKILL and I, this is pretty much standard operating procedure.
Starting every day with a full tank has to be experienced.

If I may, this brings up an important corollary point: make sure you know how you are gonna charge before you consider buying an EV. Be sure to understand what upgrades you may need for home charging. Upgrades can be substantial and expensive.

But yes many find out their current electric service can't even handle a dedicated circuit for a ev. $3-5,000 for a service upgrade with a charging station installed on top of the vehicle price. How many years will it take to get caught up

 

[PandaBear]

I'd have a dedicated 50a circuit for ev charging. My sister rents and that's her prob she wants a Tesla but would be finding herself plugging into the standard household electric.

I went to dinner with an apartment Tesla owner, he just charge at work whenever he is not working from home. His free supercharging expired after 2 years and it cost him about $1 per 8 miles of range in California.

So yeah, depends on where you live and how far / how often you work on site.

I would just keep using the 110V 15A circuit at home and top off whenever I go elsewhere with higher voltage charger.

 

[Cujet]

The "idea" of a plug-in-hybrid with useful EV range appeals to me.

Clearly, for daily use, the EV side gets the workout, and "IF" the small batteries are up to the massive cycling (a very big if) it can be operationally efficient. Unfortunately, I am concerned that Hyundai uses regular lithium cells in the 8.9Kwh battery for the 29 mile range Ironic, er, ionic. I can't imagine they will handle the high C loads and cycles

But let's not kid ourselves, carrying around the weight of an engine/transmission/drivetrain is not all that EV friendly.

My very last conversation I had with my father before he suddenly passed, was about the Chevy Volt, and how I liked the idea. My opinion has not changed. I think Chevy got it right and more growth and refinement would have been fantastic. I remember all their promises about the "Voltec" platform that could be anything from a compact full EV, to a larger family sedan hybrid.

 

[OVERKILL]

The "idea" of a plug-in-hybrid with useful EV range appeals to me.

Clearly, for daily use, the EV side gets the workout, and "IF" the small batteries are up to the massive cycling (a very big if) it can be operationally efficient. Unfortunately, I am concerned that Hyundai uses regular lithium cells in the 8.9Kwh battery for the 29 mile range Ironic, er, ionic. I can't imagine they will handle the high C loads and cycles

But let's not kid ourselves, carrying around the weight of an engine/transmission/drivetrain is not all that EV friendly.

My very last conversation I had with my father before he suddenly passed, was about the Chevy Volt, and how I liked the idea. My opinion has not changed. I think Chevy got it right and more growth and refinement would have been fantastic. I remember all their promises about the "Voltec" platform that could be anything from a compact full EV, to a larger family sedan hybrid.

Yes, apparently BMW is using the same prismatic cells they use for their full EV's in the PHEV's, and in fact, that's where the use of those cells started. I believe it was @mightymousetech that noted they use the air conditioning or something to cool the batteries? I could be wrong, but there was some sort of tie-in there.

 

[Schandyman]

The "idea" of a plug-in-hybrid with useful EV range appeals to me.

Clearly, for daily use, the EV side gets the workout, and "IF" the small batteries are up to the massive cycling (a very big if) it can be operationally efficient. Unfortunately, I am concerned that Hyundai uses regular lithium cells in the 8.9Kwh battery for the 29 mile range Ironic, er, ionic. I can't imagine they will handle the high C loads and cycles

But let's not kid ourselves, carrying around the weight of an engine/transmission/drivetrain is not all that EV friendly.

My very last conversation I had with my father before he suddenly passed, was about the Chevy Volt, and how I liked the idea. My opinion has not changed. I think Chevy got it right and more growth and refinement would have been fantastic. I remember all their promises about the "Voltec" platform that could be anything from a compact full EV, to a larger family sedan hybrid.

I love the volt and volt design as well. The gas engine as a generator concept is genius.

 

[Job]

The "idea" of a plug-in-hybrid with useful EV range appeals to me.

Clearly, for daily use, the EV side gets the workout, and "IF" the small batteries are up to the massive cycling (a very big if) it can be operationally efficient. Unfortunately, I am concerned that Hyundai uses regular lithium cells in the 8.9Kwh battery for the 29 mile range Ironic, er, ionic. I can't imagine they will handle the high C loads and cycles

But let's not kid ourselves, carrying around the weight of an engine/transmission/drivetrain is not all that EV friendly.

My very last conversation I had with my father before he suddenly passed, was about the Chevy Volt, and how I liked the idea. My opinion has not changed. I think Chevy got it right and more growth and refinement would have been fantastic. I remember all their promises about the "Voltec" platform that could be anything from a compact full EV, to a larger family sedan hybrid.

But the smaller battery weighs much less. The Prius Prime, Ionic, and Volts are pretty ev efficient. The Prius battery is air cooled. The phev have bigger buffer % I believe than a full ev. Not 100% sure about the numbers. So they are forced to stay more in the safe range than a full ev. It was said don’t charge your Tesla every day to full, and don’t fast charge it all the time. Not sure if it still true. In a phev the battery is never rapid charged, and I think has a bigger % buffer. At least they don’t say use your 120 volt more because the 240 volt charging is harder on the battery. The Toyota and Volts charge at around 3.5 kw on 240 volts. They had a 6.6 option on the 2019 Volt.

 

[PandaBear]

The "idea" of a plug-in-hybrid with useful EV range appeals to me.

Clearly, for daily use, the EV side gets the workout, and "IF" the small batteries are up to the massive cycling (a very big if) it can be operationally efficient. Unfortunately, I am concerned that Hyundai uses regular lithium cells in the 8.9Kwh battery for the 29 mile range Ironic, er, ionic. I can't imagine they will handle the high C loads and cycles

But let's not kid ourselves, carrying around the weight of an engine/transmission/drivetrain is not all that EV friendly.

My very last conversation I had with my father before he suddenly passed, was about the Chevy Volt, and how I liked the idea. My opinion has not changed. I think Chevy got it right and more growth and refinement would have been fantastic. I remember all their promises about the "Voltec" platform that could be anything from a compact full EV, to a larger family sedan hybrid.

Durability has a lot to do with how far you drain / charge and how fast you do it, I'm sure you know that already.

The thing about plug in hybrid vs EV, is that you can baby the battery and use it gently, instead of using it for 20-80% you can go 30-70%, or instead of draining and charging at 30A you can do it at 15A, while letting the gas engine do the heavy lifting.

I think for most people if they get the explanation that 29M EV only range is max and 40M range with mostly battery and some gasoline assist (say up to 20% gasoline assist acceleration) would double the battery durability, they would think about whether they want to extend that or whether they would really use the battery exclusively. Their choice of course.

 

[pezzy84]

I can't really say one way or another as my household has an EV and pure ICE for our needs.

The only thing I have to say is that you lose the pretty much maintenance free aspect of EV by going PHEV as you still have that pesky gasser to maintain. Not to mention a BMW engine barely being used if mostly on EV mode seems to be suspect based in i4 REX owner reports with their range extenders.

 

[OVERKILL]

I can't really say one way or another as my household has an EV and pure ICE for our needs.

The only thing I have to say is that you lose the pretty much maintenance free aspect of EV by going PHEV as you still have that pesky gasser to maintain. Not to mention a BMW engine barely being used if mostly on EV mode seems to be suspect based in i4 REX owner reports with their range extenders.

We've driven the X5 xDrive 45e, you have various drive modes to choose from, but the electric mode definitely biases toward running just on the battery unless you really nail the throttle. If you watch the reviews on it, it does seem to perform as expected. This one is a bit overly glowing:


This one is more in-depth, but longer of course: