EV for people who hate EV's...

So a person has to own an EV to validate the reasons they don’t like them? Hilarious.

I don’t like little low cars but I’m going to buy one to prove it to myself for certain.
+1 There are plenty of things I don't like, and there is no need to prove to myself otherwise by buying those things. At my age I know what I like, and what I don't like and why. Most people I know share the same POV. We're talking vehicles costing tens of thousands of dollars here, not candy bars.
 
I have never, ever read anything like that. I have read, and posted EV's will be compared to a gas fill up. 3 minutes for a 400 mile range. Sorry but thats a 100% fair comparison, the new product vs. the standard. Its seems you really want to play the "victim card" for EV's here.
I don't hate EV's at all. I do hate the attempt to ram them down the consumers throat by the authorities. People need to choose for themselves.

Just about any comparison is 100% fair to make, but whether it's relevant or meaningful varies from 0-100%.

How much creedence does one put into someone's opinion of a subject they have no experience with, or that a given party is unable to articulate a discussion around?
 
+1 There are plenty of things I don't like, and there is no need to prove to myself otherwise by buying those things. At my age I know what I like, and what I don't like and why. Most people I know share the same POV. We're talking vehicles costing tens of thousands of dollars here, not candy bars.
I am saying that experience trumps "I think". Of course you know what you like and don't like. But that doesn't mean all your conceptions are correct. Neither are mine. Regarding EVs, I have learned a lot since my 1st Model 3 purchase in Dec 2018. A lot.

I am not asking anyone to buy anything. I am saying that a lot of stuff I see posted and hear people say about EVs is so rooted in ICE experience that they cannot get past their pre-conceived opinions.

Experience matters.
 
You can come up with plenty of reasons not to like EVs.

But I test drove a Tesla Model 3 and bought one immediately. I liked the acceleration. I liked one pedal driving. I liked the idea it would run on electric power because gasoline is very expensive here. I liked the convenience of overnight charging in my garage. I liked the government incentives; the government takes plenty of my money every year and it was nice to get some of it back. And for good measure a Model 3 was cheaper than other cars I was considering (like a used Lexus).

I like it even better now having owned it for 3 years. We hardly even drive our Honda Accord anymore.
 
I am saying that experience trumps "I think". Of course you know what you like and don't like. But that doesn't mean all your conceptions are correct. Neither are mine. Regarding EVs, I have learned a lot since my 1st Model 3 purchase in Dec 2018. A lot.

I am not asking anyone to buy anything. I am saying that a lot of stuff I see posted and hear people say about EVs is so rooted in ICE experience that they cannot get past their pre-conceived opinions.

Experience matters.
We're entitled to our opinions. The EV can be the greatest thing since sliced bread for you. I've said it numerous times imo it's a regional thing. If I were getting beaten upside the head with gas prices like people in CA maybe I'd see things your way. Or move out of CA. ;)
 
So you think actual experience doesn't matter? Now that's hilarious.
You stated, correctly, that the anti-EV crowd is full of people who haven't owned EVs. Of course it is. Implying that their opinion isn't valid since they haven't owned one? Who ever buys a new expensive vehicle they don't even like? You bought the first Tesla on a lark apparently. We can't all do that.

FWIW I'm EV neutral. They don't fit our needs right now but our needs will change and EVs will get better. Who knows.
 
We're entitled to our opinions. The EV can be the greatest thing since sliced bread for you. I've said it numerous times imo it's a regional thing. If I were getting beaten upside the head with gas prices like people in CA maybe I'd see things your way. Or move out of CA. ;)
Here's a point... We see lotsa people speaking to the ease of fueling an ICE car. "3 minutes 400 miles" or whatever. My guess is if you polled EV owners the #1 thing they like about their cars is charging at home. Starting every day with a full tank and not going to gas stations has to be experienced to be appreciated. That's my experience. Of course I am somewhat of an extreme case because I charge with the sun...

I gassed up my niece's Odyssey yesterday. I looked for cheap gas on a phone app; I was lucky to find $4.20 not too far away.

"What a drag; what a waste of time! Going somewhere to fuel up when you don't have to?"
I would never have said this (or even considered it) until a few years of ownership.

As you say, locale (part of use case) makes a difference.
 
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You stated, correctly, that the anti-EV crowd is full of people who haven't owned EVs. Of course it is. Implying that their opinion isn't valid since they haven't owned one? Who ever buys a new expensive vehicle they don't even like? You bought the first Tesla on a lark apparently. We can't all do that.

FWIW I'm EV neutral. They don't fit our needs right now but our needs will change and EVs will get better. Who knows.
I'm saying experience matters. I am not telling anyone what to buy. I would humbly suggest people open their minds just a little, should they choose to; they just might learn something. Sometimes finding out I am wrong turns out to be a good thing. I hope to think I am not so hard headed to dismiss other's experiences in place of my own pre-conceptions.
 
Here's a point... We see lotsa people speaking to the ease of fueling an ICE car. "3 minutes 400 miles". My guess is if you polled EV owners the #1 thing they like about their cars is charging at home. Starting every day with a full tank and not going to gas stations has to be experienced to be appreciated. That's my experience. Of course I am somewhat of an extreme case because I charge with the sun...

I gassed up my niece's Odyssey yesterday. I looked for cheap gas on a phone app; I was lucky to find $4.20 not too far away. What a drag; what a waste of time!
As you say, locale (part of use case) makes a difference.
Fair enough, I have a few gas stations less than a mile from the house, I gas up on the way to or from somewhere. That's still easy. I gassed up yesterday on the way home from Church, lets call it 5 minutes to be overly fair, it was a little less. I'll be fair again and say 250 miles on 3 minutes of fuel, that applies to road trips where 3 minutes fuel will take me further. In retirement I'm driving more, so that makes the convenience of filling up fast even better. We're paying under $3/ gallon for gas now. I know the solar panel drill and charging at home. For me it doesn't pay, and I don't want them on my roof. Thank God this is still America, and for now I still have a choice. But we've beaten this horse to death, while we're very different people we're very similar in some ways. You're not going to change my mind, and I'm not going to change yours.
 
Not really. A poster threw out what it would take for him to buy an EV as a second vehicle, you replied, and a used Bolt does not meet the criteria he laid out - there too expensive up front - the ones with the extended warranty at least.

And then you tried comparing it to a Lincoln navigator for an operational cost. Laughable. Why not a Mach truck ?
It's Mack truck, not Mach.

The Navigator just happens to be the vehicle that I have to compare operating costs to. The Bolts also have very good front seat legroom, which is important to me being 6'7". So they have that in common, good legroom for front seat passengers. It's my car, I can compare to anything I want to compare it to. Other people have the prerogative to ignore my comparisons if they so choose.

We need a 2nd vehicle, at least occasionally. Maybe the person I was responding to doesn't really "need" a 2nd vehicle. But we do. My Navigator costs a lot to operate, even with no payments to be made. Do you care to suggest something else that's suitable for a 6'7" person?

To take the argument to it's logical conclusion, then,

"I want to downsize from my Navigator to something that is smaller and cheaper to operate, most of the time it's just me in the vehicle and the mileage is terrible"
"The Civic and Corolla do not have good legroom and/or headroom for a 6'7" person, so they are not acceptable"
"I can buy an Accord or Camry, but they cost more"
"The Bolt has good legroom and headroom for me, and I like EVs. I don't need to carry adults in the back seat, so it's an option"

simple as that.

Of course one might add,

"The ID.4 is a much more substantial vehicle and used examples have popped up for less than $20K"

And you might have something there, but anyway.

The other alternative, for us, to selling the Navigator and getting something else, might be to sell the Navigator and just ride Uber when I need it. I can ride Uber to the one train station in this metro which will get me fairly near to my office in about 40 minutes plus the time it takes to get the Uber and the 4 stop bus transfer to my office. About an hour and 20 minutes total, which if planned out is fine.

But it is almost 30 miles to the office, and if I absolutely, positively have to be there now due to some piece of datacenter equipment going down, riding public transportation is not an option. And that's going to be an expensive Uber ride.

This also ignores the fact that the Mach-E is on a lease. We need "something else" to drive to balance out the miles on the lease, or, just commit to buying it out now and to heck with the miles on the car.

So compared to all this, from an operating cost perspective, a used EV, even a Bolt, seems like a reasonable comparison to buying a used ICE car or hybrid in good condition. I have looked at hybrids and there isn't much 2017+ that is cheaper than a Bolt. I would never use public DC fast charging. I would use the slow the L2 chargers at my office, because the electricity is even cheaper than it is at my house.
 
So a person has to own an EV to validate the reasons they don’t like them? Hilarious.

I don’t like little low cars but I’m going to buy one to prove it to myself for certain.
Objections to EVs that are frequently stated by folks who have never driven one is one reason the counterarguments keep coming.

As for larger EVs there are starting to be more of them around, they will come down in price eventually.
 
I charge at home overnight, not to mention next to nothing for the electricity because I have solar.
ICE cars have to go somewhere to fuel up. "3 minutes for 400 mile range" is a pretty rare vehicle experience.
How much did you pay for the solar?

(edit) Solar is probably a lot closer to justifying itself in CA with your high electricity rates. It won't ever justify itself here as compared to the kwh from the electric co-op, but, I am interested in having it in order to buy as little power from ERCOT as possible.
 
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You don't claim real estate taxes and mortgage interest as a deduction?

That's a tax break that only homeowners get.
You don't claim real estate taxes and mortgage interest as a deduction?

That's a tax break that only homeowners get.
Read again, you can take one or the other


Post in thread 'EV for people who hate EV's...'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/ev-for-people-who-hate-evs.387063/post-7006021

Any married couple can take a $27,500 deduction whether they own a house, live with their parents, rent or live in a motel

Yes, if you do own a house and your taxes and mortgage interest comes out to more than $27,500 you can itemize and take the higher amount instead of the $27,500

I’m still not sure how giving away $7500 to somebody buying a new car has anything to do with other tax deductions.
The $7500 is a gift whether or not you owe taxes or not
 
Here's a point... We see lotsa people speaking to the ease of fueling an ICE car. "3 minutes 400 miles" or whatever. My guess is if you polled EV owners the #1 thing they like about their cars is charging at home. Starting every day with a full tank and not going to gas stations has to be experienced to be appreciated. That's my experience. Of course I am somewhat of an extreme case because I charge with the sun...
Not everyone has the convenience of charging at a home and almost everybody who does own a house has a gasoline vehicle as a back up and you can bet they don’t have more than one EV and the vast majority may have as many as three more gasoline cars in the family

I know you were going to answer that you have no people with more than one EV in the household, but I can tell you now that 99% of the population does not
 
Not everyone has the convenience of charging at a home and almost everybody who does own a house has a gasoline vehicle as a back up and you can bet they don’t have more than one EV and the vast majority may have as many as three more gasoline cars in the family

I know you were going to answer that you have no people with more than one EV in the household, but I can tell you now that 99% of the population does not
If I could not charge at home I would not own an EV. I know a few who do, but I sure wouldn't. I've said a bazillion times; it's all about your use case and wants. By the way, apartment and condo charging has been growing around here in the last few years.

The only people with homes that do not charge at home, that I know of, are those who charge at work, generally subsidized or even free. The guy across the street pays like 12 cents per kWh and the family across the street have some sweet work deal as well.
 
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Here we have a guy posting about how his VW EV works perfectly well for him.
We then have a crowd of the usual suspects telling him that he is somehow mistaken.
We also have a guy posting about the tax incentives given to Americans for buying an EV, which only apply in some and not all cases anyway and as though the US tax code didn't contain a whole bunch of preferences for things having nothing to do with EVs.
Those who don't like the idea of EVs are free to have that opinion, however uninformed it might be, but they have no place in a thread in which the OP posted about how well his EV works for him.
Smart people learn from the experience of others.
 
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