At my local exxon I noticed a couple of weeks ago, a sign on the pumps saying that the gas contains "up to 10% ethanol". Do the different grades have a different amount of ethanol? Is the wording so vague that it may have none at all? Lastly, can I expect different performance from ethanol gas. I think these new lean running 2 strokes are more sensitive to mix. Input please.
ethanol in yard equip.?
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In a 2-stroke engine ethanol is a risk due to the moisture that the fuel can pick up in humid conditions can't carry any 2-stroke oil-you COULD get a shot of water which could result in engine damage due to lack of lubrication. Unfortunately, around here the last holdout (Shell) now has 10% ethanol in all grades, so the only answer is to keep tanks full & try to turn over fuel quickly, & keep your fingers crossed!
A good synthetic 2 stroke oil will help keep the moister at bay and help keep varnish and acids from forming. I work at a hardware store that services Stihl and we see it all the time. we have had great luck with the synthetics.
BillyMarr01 from Pilot Point, TX
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I am very fortunate that all of our local Kwik Trip stations still have premium unleaded that does not contain any ethanol and that is all I use for all of my small engine equipment. I use 2.5 gallon fuel containers and fuel stabilizer is used on all of them.
I am very fortunate that all of our local Kwik Trip stations still have premium unleaded that does not contain any ethanol and that is all I use for all of my small engine equipment. I use 2.5 gallon fuel containers and fuel stabilizer is used on all of them.
Maybe it has something to do with warm climates but here in the north, I've never had an issue caused by fuel other than dirt or water in sufficient quantities to impede carburetion or fuel delivery. We've had ethanol added to winter fuel for decades. Never had any problems whatsoever. I run conventional two stroke oil in all of my engines and have NEVER used synthetic.
Ethanol in the fuel causing a lubrication issue is quite a stretch in my view. Too many times, I've seen engines with so much water in the fuel that the engine would barely run. Sometimes they'd finally stall until the fuel was cleared of water. None of those engines, two stroke or otherwise suffered any observable damage. A couple of these engines are well past 30 years old and one is over fifty ('59 OMC Viking outboard).
I'd like to know how the use of synthetic oil will neutralize the assumed effects of ethanol? Considering that I've never had issues with conventional two stroke oil and ethanol in the fuel, it would be interesting to know what I'm not experiencing and how I'm not dealing with it.
The ethanol issue is way overblown.
Ethanol in the fuel causing a lubrication issue is quite a stretch in my view. Too many times, I've seen engines with so much water in the fuel that the engine would barely run. Sometimes they'd finally stall until the fuel was cleared of water. None of those engines, two stroke or otherwise suffered any observable damage. A couple of these engines are well past 30 years old and one is over fifty ('59 OMC Viking outboard).
I'd like to know how the use of synthetic oil will neutralize the assumed effects of ethanol? Considering that I've never had issues with conventional two stroke oil and ethanol in the fuel, it would be interesting to know what I'm not experiencing and how I'm not dealing with it.
The ethanol issue is way overblown.
I will agree with you about synthetic Vs conventional 2-cycle oil. If you use a good conventional, well blended conventional 2-cycle oil the equipment will last forever and synthetic is not better with water than conventional is. That is my main complaint with ethanol, is the water attraction and unstable fuel because of it. That is why I use a good fuel stabilizer in all of my garage kept fuel.
Does the ethanol in your part of Canada come from corn?
Does the ethanol in your part of Canada come from corn?
yes but in our area there is methanol.
Originally Posted By: BillyMarr01
yes but in our area there is methanol.
No thank you to methanol. That stuff is very corrosive to soft metals, like aluminum, plus methanol is extremely poisons.
yes but in our area there is methanol.
No thank you to methanol. That stuff is very corrosive to soft metals, like aluminum, plus methanol is extremely poisons.
"Does the ethanol in your part of Canada come from corn?"
I have no idea where it comes from. I'd suspect that our petroleum producers buy it from whomever is selling it the cheapest. Probably out of the U.S.A.
Just about every gasoline burning vehicle or piece of equipment in North America is using pretty much the same blend of fuel. Millions upon millions of engines. I don't see a pandemic of engine failures nor any other form of failure related to the fuel we are using.
As mentioned above, I personally have never had an issue with blended fuel. Nor do I know of anyone who has. I'd say that failure to properly maintain vehicles/equipment is the cause of the great majority of failures. Dirt and water in our gasoline is far more of a problem than the ethanol.
No one says we have to like or appreciate blended fuel. However, from my experience, attributing any significant percentage of vehicle/engine failures to it is unfounded.
I have no idea where it comes from. I'd suspect that our petroleum producers buy it from whomever is selling it the cheapest. Probably out of the U.S.A.
Just about every gasoline burning vehicle or piece of equipment in North America is using pretty much the same blend of fuel. Millions upon millions of engines. I don't see a pandemic of engine failures nor any other form of failure related to the fuel we are using.
As mentioned above, I personally have never had an issue with blended fuel. Nor do I know of anyone who has. I'd say that failure to properly maintain vehicles/equipment is the cause of the great majority of failures. Dirt and water in our gasoline is far more of a problem than the ethanol.
No one says we have to like or appreciate blended fuel. However, from my experience, attributing any significant percentage of vehicle/engine failures to it is unfounded.
JTK
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My experience has been the same as boraticus. 10% ethanol blends have been mainstream in the Buffalo NY area for ~20yrs. It does seem to deteriorate faster in a small vented fuel tanks/systems, but sealed up in a portable fuel container it's fine for many months.
Joel
Joel
I've notice a difference especially when many gallons are used. Gaskets and rubber material degrades faster. This is regards to the small two cycle engines. If temp conditions varies I don't know.
I'd like to see an experiment with two cycle fuel mixture. Four cans two with ethanol fuel and two with non-ethanol. You could use a popular conventional 2 cycle mixture versus a synthetic 2 cycle mixture one of each from the two different fuels. Leave it in for one year checked monthly for observation. Stale 2 cycle oil mixture has a paint thinner smell to it.
I'd like to see an experiment with two cycle fuel mixture. Four cans two with ethanol fuel and two with non-ethanol. You could use a popular conventional 2 cycle mixture versus a synthetic 2 cycle mixture one of each from the two different fuels. Leave it in for one year checked monthly for observation. Stale 2 cycle oil mixture has a paint thinner smell to it.
Maybe I need to clarify my statement. I do not think nor believe blended fuel is destroying any engines as I too have never seen any proof of that. What I have seen is greater amounts of water concentration with blended fuels than non-blended fuels. It is just the nature of the beast that ethanol, especially ethanol made from corn attracts/absorbs water. I do not notice it as much with the tanks of gas I buy at the station as a tank of gas does not last long around here, but when I buy gas for my snowblower in the winter or my lawn equipment in the summer I do notice the water concentration and degradation of the gas quicker as a gas can full will set a long time for being used up. With these I add fuel stabilizer and solve that problem. Now, if I buy the premium non-blended fuel I referenced above I do not have the moisture problem and the stabilizer is not required.
Again, I have never seen an engined destroyed because of blended gasoline.
Again, I have never seen an engined destroyed because of blended gasoline.
I agree that ethanol will attract moisture. That's the original purpose for adding it to gasoline in cold climates. However, to say that it will pull moisture out of the air at a rate that will contaminate the fuel in a matter of weeks or months, is difficult to accept. I leave two full five gallon containers at my camp all winter (5 to 6 months) and use that fuel when I resume going to camp in the spring. I also leave left over mixed fuel for my outboards in the plastic and steel fuel tanks. In the spring, I add fuel if I need more for the outboards or just hook up the tanks, fire up the engines and go. Never an issue. The only time I have a water/fuel issue is if the gasoline is contaminated when I buy it. That and dirt in the fuel have been far more of a problem than anything else.
Regarding ethanol dissolving rubber/vinyl/plastic etc. I'm having a problem with that theory as well. I leave the fuel lines on my outboard engines full of fuel and connected to the engines for the entire spring/summer/fall (6 months). Sometimes one engine/boat won't be used for weeks at a time. A couple squeezes on the fuel siphon bulb, pull the choke and the engine(s) fire right up.
Last week while putting up with a couple days of rain, I decided to pull the carburetor off of my 1984 Suzuki outboard engine. Not that the engine wasn't running right. It was running fine. I had the time and after 26 years of regular use, I was curious to see what the inside of the carb looked like. Clean as a whistle. No corrosion in the float bowl or anywhere else, all jets nice and clean, no blocked passages. it was like new. Every ounce of fuel run through it was regular pump gas. Ethanol and all.
I'm not saying that it's impossible but I've never seen nor experienced an issue with ethanol blended fuel. I assume that if and when the ratio of ethanol to fuel increases, problems may arise. However, at the present ratio, for me there is and have been no issues.
At the risk of repeating myself, dirty/water contaminated fuel from the pump is where my problems have come from. Check your fuel carefully. If you do, you'll see most of your fuel related problems will disappear.
When transferring fuel from a large container, use a siphon. Keep the bottom of the siphon hose/tube an inch or so off bottom of the fuel container when transferring fuel to another vessel. When the fuel in the container is down to an inch or so, slowly tilt the container so that all the fuel is in one corner. Look closely for separation and change in the colour of the fuel at the bottom. Water will sink to the bottom and it's usually discoloured by rust and easy to see. Even clean water can be distinguished from the gasoline this way. You just have to look carefully for it.
Regarding ethanol dissolving rubber/vinyl/plastic etc. I'm having a problem with that theory as well. I leave the fuel lines on my outboard engines full of fuel and connected to the engines for the entire spring/summer/fall (6 months). Sometimes one engine/boat won't be used for weeks at a time. A couple squeezes on the fuel siphon bulb, pull the choke and the engine(s) fire right up.
Last week while putting up with a couple days of rain, I decided to pull the carburetor off of my 1984 Suzuki outboard engine. Not that the engine wasn't running right. It was running fine. I had the time and after 26 years of regular use, I was curious to see what the inside of the carb looked like. Clean as a whistle. No corrosion in the float bowl or anywhere else, all jets nice and clean, no blocked passages. it was like new. Every ounce of fuel run through it was regular pump gas. Ethanol and all.
I'm not saying that it's impossible but I've never seen nor experienced an issue with ethanol blended fuel. I assume that if and when the ratio of ethanol to fuel increases, problems may arise. However, at the present ratio, for me there is and have been no issues.
At the risk of repeating myself, dirty/water contaminated fuel from the pump is where my problems have come from. Check your fuel carefully. If you do, you'll see most of your fuel related problems will disappear.
When transferring fuel from a large container, use a siphon. Keep the bottom of the siphon hose/tube an inch or so off bottom of the fuel container when transferring fuel to another vessel. When the fuel in the container is down to an inch or so, slowly tilt the container so that all the fuel is in one corner. Look closely for separation and change in the colour of the fuel at the bottom. Water will sink to the bottom and it's usually discoloured by rust and easy to see. Even clean water can be distinguished from the gasoline this way. You just have to look carefully for it.
boraticus, your experience mimics mine as well. We've had ethanol in winter fuel since the early '90s at least, and during the '90's switched to 10% ethanol in nearly all gasoline. We've had little trouble with our engines at the cabin over the years, and similar to you, we typically leave in the neighborhood of 10-15 gallons over the winter months to use the next year. It ends up in the boats, lawn equipment, 4 wheeler, weed wackers and blowers. We really have had no more problems that I would otherwise expect with age. The last issue we had was with a 6hp 1974 Johnson outboard that needed the carb rebuilt, but considering how much trolling we've done with motor over the years and the minimal maintenance its received, we couldn't complain.
We always use stabilizer in the gas, regardless of when purchased. Just good practice. We tend to run some seafoam through as well about once a year in everything for some "cleaning" so to speak. Works for us anyways...
We always use stabilizer in the gas, regardless of when purchased. Just good practice. We tend to run some seafoam through as well about once a year in everything for some "cleaning" so to speak. Works for us anyways...
In response to pulling water out of the air. I have done a test in the shop last summer, hot humid day. Clean gas can just filled at the neighbor gas station with a 10% blend. We poured it out into 2 small pans. Within 20 seconds water started to form in the bottom of the pans. Within 2 minutes there was a pool of water formed about 2.5" in diameter. So yes I believe it can absorb enough water in a short amount of time to cause fuel to go bad especially in the more humid regions. Totally sealed it would probablly stay ok.
I can still buy gasoline without ethanol for now and I drive the extra 4 to 5 miles further to get it. That is all I run in my yard equipment and our 4 atvs as well as my Yamaha motorcycle.
When running ethanol gasoline in my 6 year old Craftsman mower with a 20hp Kohler engine, it would take over 3/4 of a tank of fuel to mow my 2 acres. With non-ethanol fuel.....1/2 a tank.
Gas mileage on my motorcycle has come up from 35 to 40 mpg to 50.
In my 97 Ford F150 with a 4.6 auto, my mileage has dropped from 17 to 18 mpg in town to 14 to 15 with the 10% ethanol fuel.
My point it that all of my equipment uses less fuel with the non-ethanol fuel.
When running ethanol gasoline in my 6 year old Craftsman mower with a 20hp Kohler engine, it would take over 3/4 of a tank of fuel to mow my 2 acres. With non-ethanol fuel.....1/2 a tank.
Gas mileage on my motorcycle has come up from 35 to 40 mpg to 50.
In my 97 Ford F150 with a 4.6 auto, my mileage has dropped from 17 to 18 mpg in town to 14 to 15 with the 10% ethanol fuel.
My point it that all of my equipment uses less fuel with the non-ethanol fuel.
I saw on TV "This Week In Agribusiness" last night that the Dept of Agriculture is definitly going to approve 11% -12% ethanol for next year, but not 15%. I wonder what's going to happen to all the warranties that state NO MORE THAN 10% ethanol?
You can bet if the government requires it the auto companies will have to make it work. Get ready for more $$$$$$$$$$$ for the cost of a new car, and they do not care about our older cars. Remember, they are going to jack the price up so we will use less and save. Aren't they wonderful?
Originally Posted By: RUSHCO
In response to pulling water out of the air. I have done a test in the shop last summer, hot humid day. Clean gas can just filled at the neighbor gas station with a 10% blend. We poured it out into 2 small pans. Within 20 seconds water started to form in the bottom of the pans. Within 2 minutes there was a pool of water formed about 2.5" in diameter. So yes I believe it can absorb enough water in a short amount of time to cause fuel to go bad especially in the more humid regions. Totally sealed it would probablly stay ok.
Is that how we store our fuel, in open pans? If we did, I think I'd be more concerned with moths, grasshoppers, and cigarette buts and open flame!
How much moisture will be pulled in through a pinhole in the gas cap on a lawnmower stored inside for a couple of weeks or months for that matter?
Despite the findings of your experiment, their is little practical application. No one stores fuel like that. We pretty much all know that ethanol absorbs moisture. That's one of the benefits for putting it in the fuel.
Over the last 27 years, I've left my old Tecumseh lawnmower in a shed all winter with whatever amount of fuel was left in it from the previous season. In the spring, all it takes is a couple pumps on the primer bulb, one or two pulls and it fires right up. Every time.
Maybe we get better fuel in the Norther US states and Canada. I really don't know. What I do know, is that I've never had problems with ethanol fuel.
If people paid more attention to the condition of the fuel when they buy it, we'd see far fewer discussions like this.
In response to pulling water out of the air. I have done a test in the shop last summer, hot humid day. Clean gas can just filled at the neighbor gas station with a 10% blend. We poured it out into 2 small pans. Within 20 seconds water started to form in the bottom of the pans. Within 2 minutes there was a pool of water formed about 2.5" in diameter. So yes I believe it can absorb enough water in a short amount of time to cause fuel to go bad especially in the more humid regions. Totally sealed it would probablly stay ok.
Is that how we store our fuel, in open pans? If we did, I think I'd be more concerned with moths, grasshoppers, and cigarette buts and open flame!
How much moisture will be pulled in through a pinhole in the gas cap on a lawnmower stored inside for a couple of weeks or months for that matter?
Despite the findings of your experiment, their is little practical application. No one stores fuel like that. We pretty much all know that ethanol absorbs moisture. That's one of the benefits for putting it in the fuel.
Over the last 27 years, I've left my old Tecumseh lawnmower in a shed all winter with whatever amount of fuel was left in it from the previous season. In the spring, all it takes is a couple pumps on the primer bulb, one or two pulls and it fires right up. Every time.
Maybe we get better fuel in the Norther US states and Canada. I really don't know. What I do know, is that I've never had problems with ethanol fuel.
If people paid more attention to the condition of the fuel when they buy it, we'd see far fewer discussions like this.
Thanks again Fed Gov't, now our mpg will drop a little more, I'm really tired of the EPA telling me how to live. I like the environment, but I (try to) resist these orders from the EPA and government as there all about taking away our choices. USA freedom? Yeah right brother. People need to push back NOW. Rant over thank you.
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