ETHANOL IN GASOLINE.... CONCERNS

[Pete591]

Ethanol-gas blend attracts moisture, which can gum up the engine. FROM MY SMALL ENGINE MECHANIC,,,, "It's very corrosive to these little carburetors," "It actually eats the inside of the carburetors." I recently had to replace 2 fuel lines in Echo trimmers and now am mixing less quantities of 2-cycle fuel.. Will adding Sta-bil help?

 

[StevieC]

My family has never had a problem with E-10 gas ever since it was put into effect in Ontario. All the carburetors on my dads old outdoor equipment are original with original gaskets. Have they been taken apart to be cleaned and put back together every 5 years or so, sure, but they are in excellent shape without any ill-effects or corrosion from the "E" in the gas. We don't use Stabil before storing our equipment until next season. We just drain the gas almost to empty and store it as is. In the next season we top it up with fresh fuel and some FP+ if we think about it, give it a few pulls and off it goes running like it did last season... My dads B&S lawnmower is almost 30 years old with over 1900 hours on it and besides burning a tad of oil and a bit of smoke on start up it still runs like a champ with it's original carb & gaskets!

 

[JTK]

E10 is pretty much all we've had for a good ~20yrs now. I've never had a carb problem w/ any of my OPE. Joel

 

[MONKEYMAN]

I had to replace a fuel line on my Murray rider, Toro mower, Bolens tiller and the fuel line grommet on my Echo trimmer. All at my parents purchased between 2000-2003. The local Echo shop sold me a fuel line kit with the grommet. He did say they are making fuel lines and grommets more resistant to the alcohol in the gas. According to him, all the fuel line/grommets rotting out was the alcohol in the gas? I have used FP60 sometimes. At home all the time. My Solo back-pack blower I bought refurbished 5 years ago had a new fuel line update since the originals leaked. They looked like new when I had the cover off last month. I did drop the bowl on my mom's Toro when replacing the fuel line. Did not find corrosion. Just some gum at the bottom of the bowl. I have been topping off my car with E85 lately. I like to live dangerously.

 

[StevieC]

Fuel lines in trimmers are generally a problem as I have seen my dad replace his a few times... However the carbs have never been serviced and we own a lot of outdoor equipment that sees no issues with ethanol enriched fuel.

 

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

 Originally Posted By: Pete591

Ethanol-gas blend attracts moisture, which can gum up the engine. FROM MY SMALL ENGINE MECHANIC,,,, "It's very corrosive to these little carburetors," "It actually eats the inside of the carburetors." I recently had to replace 2 fuel lines in Echo trimmers and now am mixing less quantities of 2-cycle fuel.. Will adding Sta-bil help?

The landcapers and the boat owners down here are all complaning about the 10% ethanol...They said the exact same thing you said about it...Florida has no intentions of dropping the 10% corn juice...In fact there is some talk of increasing the corn juice to 20%...I sure hope that does not happen.

 

[Mustang2008Z]

E-85 Ethanol eats metal by rusting the engine from the inside out. The new GF-5 Specifications which will come out in the future are supposed to resolve that issue. Ethanol, also, does not get very good mileage either, especially E-85. It is a matter of time if those specs can resolve the serious issue of rust. I would not own a Flex fuel vehicle right now, until the technology and other things are resolved to keep from watching the engine and the lines rust from the inside out..

 

[brianl703]

I replaced the fuel line on my mower with 1/4" fuel injection hose. The original line rotted out from age. It was probably 15 years old.

 

[ksJoe]

A couple weeks ago I had the fuel lines replaced on my car (06) due to recall. They said ethanol (E10) would eat holes in the aluminum lines. Don't know if its true, thats just what the recall said.

 

[Quest]

 Originally Posted By: Pete591

Ethanol-gas blend attracts moisture, which can gum up the engine. FROM MY SMALL ENGINE MECHANIC,,,, "It's very corrosive to these little carburetors," "It actually eats the inside of the carburetors." I recently had to replace 2 fuel lines in Echo trimmers and now am mixing less quantities of 2-cycle fuel.. Will adding Sta-bil help?

Poppycock! We've been running all sorts of gasoline powered equipment for 20+ yrs with E-10 blend (only Esso comes w/o E-10, but then they have the dreaded MMT), none of the engines, small engines incl. comes with issues afterall. Those that reported issues with E10 are either observers (w/o any 1st hand understanding of what's going on) by reciting other people's observations, and also the combination of weathering of the gas. I have all sorts of gasoline powered gears running on E10 incl. big cars and outboard motors (and my 2-stroke pwer generator) and never have any problems with it. Q. (yes, I used to be a mechanic and I still service cars and gasoline engines)

 

[Mustang2008Z]

Yes, I, too, was a mechanic, and can still service automobiles and gasoline engines, and Wankel rotary engines as well, using today's technology. E-85 is not a good blend between ethanol and gasoline. 85% ethanol/15% gasoline. It rusts the engines and fuel lines from the inside out, that is why the manufacturers and the oil companies are developing GF-5 specifications for motor oil to prevent the "RUST."

 

[brianl703]

 Originally Posted By: ksJoe

A couple weeks ago I had the fuel lines replaced on my car (06) due to recall. They said ethanol (E10) would eat holes in the aluminum lines.

E10 has been available in this country for well over 20 years...what kinda car company can't manage to product a car that doesn't need a recall fix to work with it? As far as ethanol eating holes in aluminum lines...beer is sold in aluminum cans...

 

[Kestas]

I believe most of the corrosion problems with E10 are related to storage, where humidity and temperature fluctuations can lead to phase separation (water dropping out of solution). Continuous (i.e., daily) useage of E10 should not be a problem. It's been recently discussed: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1499380&gonew=1#UNREAD

 

[benjamming]

brian, Aluminum cans are coated on the inside, so not a straight up analogy.

 

[ksJoe]

 Originally Posted By: brianl703

 Originally Posted By: ksJoe

A couple weeks ago I had the fuel lines replaced on my car (06) due to recall. They said ethanol (E10) would eat holes in the aluminum lines.

E10 has been available in this country for well over 20 years...what kinda car company can't manage to product a car that doesn't need a recall fix to work with it? As far as ethanol eating holes in aluminum lines...beer is sold in aluminum cans...

The Lexus kind.

 

[brianl703]

 Originally Posted By: benjamming

brian, Aluminum cans are coated on the inside, so not a straight up analogy.

They are, but all aluminum has an oxide coating formed when it is exposed to air. Here's some info about ethanol's effect on aluminum gas tanks.

 Quote:

Aluminum Fuel Tanks In the case of aluminum tanks, aluminum is a highly conductive metal that relies on an oxide layer for its corrosion protection properties. Low levels of ethanol, such as E10 (10%), are usually not a problem in aluminum tanks because the oxide layer provides a good measure of protection. The problem occurs when the ethanol content is increased. There are two mechanisms that occur with ethanol. Both mechanisms are a result of the hydroscopic property of ethanol, meaning it absorbs water. The more ethanol in the fuel, the more water there will be in the fuel tank. Water not only causes the tank to corrode, it also causes the corrosion particles to clog fuel filters, fuel systems, and damage engine components. The corrosion rate can be accelerated under a number of conditions if other contaminating metals are present such as copper which may be picked up from brass fittings or as a low level contaminant in the aluminum alloy. Chloride, which is a chemical found in salt water, will also accelerate corrosion. In the long term, corrosion can perforate the aluminum to produce leaks that would cause fuel to spill into the bilge and end up in the environment. In the worse case it could cause a fire and/or explosion hazard. Boat fuel tanks are often located under the deck next to the engine where the operator might not be aware of a leak until it was too late. . The second mechanism that can occurs with the increased use of ethanol based fuel in aluminum tanks is galvanic corrosion. Gasoline fuel is not conductive, but the presence of ethanol or ethanol and water will conduct electricity. The galvanic process that occurs to aluminum trim tabs, stern drives, shaft couplings, etc. will occur within the aluminum fuel tank. Boat builders are able to protect exterior aluminum boat equipment with sacrificial anodes known as zincs. Sacrificial anodes are not a feasible option for the interior of a fuel tank.

http://www.nmma.org/lib/docs/nmma/gr/environmental/E20_Position_Paper.doc

 

[brianl703]

 Originally Posted By: ksJoe

The Lexus kind.

No E10 in Japan, I suppose.

 

[Craig in Canada]

 Originally Posted By: Quest

Poppycock! We've been running all sorts of gasoline powered equipment for 20+ yrs with E-10 blend (only Esso comes w/o E-10, but then they have the dreaded MMT), none of the engines, small engines incl. comes with issues afterall.

First, E10 has been virtually all you can get in my area for decades. It's rare to find anything that isn't "may contain up to 10% ethanol". I've never had a road vehicle problem, and all of my Honda OPE is clean as a whistle. My 1986 Tecumseh snowthrower did need a carb rebuild, but that was a storage issue from the previous owner. Second, I have found repeatedly that Esso premium fuels (my car calls for 92) give the best performance AND the best fuel economy out of Shell, Esso, Sunoco and PetroCan. None of the other brands are good at both, and some are good at neither (despite Shell V-power being ethanol-free). All of my Esso stations indicate "10% ethanol" on the pump. What are your references for their continued use of MMT and lack of ethanol?

 

[Mustang2008Z]

My mpg drops from 27 mpg to 17 mpg just using E-10 Ethanol Mess. IMHO 10% or 85% Ethanol is not worth it. Period.

 

[Mustang2008Z]

Feed the chickens and cows with the corn; don't refine to substitute for real gasoline. IMO