Estimating Oil Filter usefull life

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BobsArmory

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I was just thinking about something. Very often someone will post pics of opened oil filters and someone on this forum will eventually chime in with a comment like, that will easily go 10,000 miles or I wouldn't go over 5 or 6,000 miles with that filter.

So could someone clue me in with what I am missing here? I enjoy looking at pics of used oil filters just like the other guys, but from looking at photos I don't think I can tell you how many more grams of dirt an oil filter can hold or how many more miles you can run one.

What criteria/standards are you all looking at when you come up with these opinions? Or are people just giving us a W.A.G. when they post these comments?
 
I believe a regular oil filter can go up to 10K in a well maintained (clean) engine....On the other hand, even a top end, high capacity filter like the Fram Ultra, Bosch Distance Plus or Wix XP will have a hard time going that distance in a neglected (dirty) engine...IMO.
 
Signs of the filter looking really dirty and wavy may indicate it had maximum delta P and was in bypass but most of it's just +1'ing unless you have an obvious media tear or hole which could obviously indicate it was pushed too far.

Most of the lower end fiber end cap filters get pretty wavy but still hold seals on the bypass valve and anti drain back valve while looking not very loaded, that is typical but not indication of a failure.

A used oil analysis has insolubles ratings giving you a good idea if the filter did it's job or not. Ideally there should be only a trace of insolubles in a uoa but most good filters score a 0.1- 0.3 while a 0.5+ might indicate filtration was compromised.
 
Looking at a cut-open filter gives some clues as to how well it might hold up after additional miles.
We've seen some lower tier filters that held up very well on extended runs, intentional or otherwise.
I think we just have to believe the evidence we see in posted photos and ignore the claims of the makers.
A filter that looks bad at 5K is probably not a 10K filter.
A filter that looks good after 10K clearly is.
Holding capacity is probably not as big a deal as having the media remain intact. No engine that's seen reasonable maintenance is going to be dirty enough to seriously challenge the holding capacity of any oil filter.
Filtration efficiency may not be all that important either, in that Japanese OEM filters have laughable filtration efficiency as compared to some of the cheapest aftermarket cans you can buy. If an automaker isn't obsessed with filtration effficiency, I'm not going to be either.
The proof of the filter is in use, not in marketing.
Cutting filters open and posting photos let's us evaluate how well oil filters hold up in use.
 
It's worth noting that a robust filter that reachs it's maximum capacity paired with a low bypass spring would look good on visual inspection but a uoa would reveal the higher insolubles and a particle count would look pretty bad too. Without the analysis though there's lots of speculation.

On another note, looks can be deceiving.

Here is an example of an un used filter cut open that some members thought looked "good"

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb..._Pi#Post3393355


Here is another similar thread with the same filter model cut open not looking so "good"

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3349314/Blue_Mountain_Filters_revisite
 
I think its all about how clean your engine in. Most band name oil filters can go at least 5K miles in a clean engine...except Puro which currently has the tearing issue.
 
I feel nobody truly knows.

Determining how long an oil filter lasts has too many variables. I'll go by what the manufacturers say. For example, the Fram extra guard is rated for 5000 while the ultra is rated for 15,000.

I wouldn't go over 5000 miles with an EG, but using an Ultra for anything less than 15,000 is a waste.
 
Just too many variables. Some filters are more generously sized for specified change intervals it seems. Certain filter sizes seem to hold up better within a respective brand. For instance PH3600 and PH3980 filters seem to hold up great even in cheaper models such as extra guard, Quaker State, Purolator while other sizes end up with more waves andddistortion running less miles of the same brand.

I only noticed this because those are the filter sizes I run and I have extensively searched them cut open for some time, although the PH3387A for my oem Buick size seems to do well also, which leads me to believe my engine is easy on filters.
 
Oil filter end of life is indicated by an excessive pressure drop. Oil temperature & viscosity influence this, yet it would be nice if there was a pop-up button indicator that told us the oil filter has been operating in bypass, similar in concept to an electrical GFI button pop-up. Or maybe set the pop-up threshold pressure to about 5 psi or so, and disable the feature/warning when temperature is low.
 
^^^ Filters can go into bypass way before they are clogged up depending on the operating conditions. So a "pop-up indicator" that is triggered when the bypass has opened may not necessarily mean the filter is clogged beyond useful life.

What you really need is an on-board filter delta-p sensor that is part of the automobile, not part of the filter. It could give real time delta-p and also be set-up to give a warning to the driver that the filter needs to be changed when the steady-state delta-p exceeds a certain level. Maybe we will see something like this on future cars.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Filters can go into bypass way before they are clogged up depending on the operating conditions. So a "pop-up indicator" that is triggered when the bypass has opened may not necessarily mean the filter is clogged beyond useful life.


Only time bypass should (can) be activated is at start-up when the oil is cold/thick. The pop-up (or ratcheting riser plunger as in air filter indicators) would need to be temporarily disabled by an attached metallic coil or strip that ignored cold conditions. Not too complex, keeping cost down.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
What you really need is an on-board filter delta-p sensor that is part of the automobile, not part of the filter. It could give real time delta-p and also be set-up to give a warning to the driver that the filter needs to be changed when the steady-state delta-p exceeds a certain level. Maybe we will see something like this on future cars.


I'm surprised my 07 BMW 530ix doesn't already have it. It monitors everything practically already, its almost annoying LOL. All we would need is one more oil pressure sensor between the oil pump and filter, and compare to engine oil pressure, of course ignored when cold in computer software.
 
It is a wag based on some knowledge. FRAM decided last year to simply take the guess work out of all this by publishing OCI intervals on its filters. Using the PH8A size as an example, the Extra Guard filter holds 11 grams to bypass and is rated for 5k OCI, the Tough Guard holds 16 grams to bypass and is rated to 10k OCI and the Ultra holds 32 grams to bypass and is rated to 15k OCI's. These are all under rated but we want to err on the side of safety, we never know how dirty the engine is they are installed on.
 
I bet we cant ,we just assume ,check steel end cap.fram did speak about it .they still swear by the fiber end media .yet they released a steel end cap version .(wich was probably never needed.its perception.in customer head it looks weak then its weak even tho it wasnt proven (outside margin of error)
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I feel nobody truly knows.

Determining how long an oil filter lasts has too many variables. I'll go by what the manufacturers say. For example, the Fram extra guard is rated for 5000 while the ultra is rated for 15,000.

I wouldn't go over 5000 miles with an EG, but using an Ultra for anything less than 15,000 is a waste.

Extraguard is rated for more than 5k if your factory interval is higher. In my case my s type is 10k and I confirmed with fram that it's OK to run the filter for double what they rated it at. Even says so in a footnote on their website. Check out my thread. I'm running an autolite filter (rebadged extraguard) for 10k
 
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
I bet we cant ,we just assume ,check steel end cap.fram did speak about it .they still swear by the fiber end media .yet they released a steel end cap version .(wich was probably never needed.its perception.in customer head it looks weak then its weak even tho it wasnt proven (outside margin of error)


The Ultra needs steel end caps so they can firmly pot the two layers of synthetic media along with the steel wire mesh backing. It would be very hard or even impossible to attached all that to fiber end caps reliably.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
Or are people just giving us a W.A.G. when they post these comments?


Yes!


Agreed. IMO your oil filter will go for one OCI (two for Honda), and it is the oil that dictates how long those OCIs will be.
 
Originally Posted By: pbm
I believe a regular oil filter can go up to 10K in a well maintained (clean) engine....On the other hand, even a top end, high capacity filter like the Fram Ultra, Bosch Distance Plus or Wix XP will have a hard time going that distance in a neglected (dirty) engine...IMO.


This is the best summary here.
 
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