EPA vs CARB

[pacstud]

Posted this in the Ranger forum I go to but...

360k mile 1998 ford ranger, 2.5. OE cat. I'm getting a pending P0420, so old girl may be fading.

EPA cat (I'm in Nebraska) is about $350 for a stainless steel Walker, solid cat. Magnaflow has a CARB compliant, but it's just under $1K.

So, is it worth it? I know the CARB cat is better, but is it $650 better? I drive "hot" 99% of the time, no short trips, a benefit of geography. I garage it, so I can combat rust pretty well.

Thoughts?

 

[97prizm]

As someone who has worked as an emissions emissions inspector and later station manager the only reason you need a CARB specific catalytic converter is if you live in one of seven states that have gone to that. A regular cat will work fine.

 

[97prizm]

The CARB cat from asking has more palladium, rhodium gold etc.

 

[pacstud]

The CARB cat from asking has more palladium, rhodium gold etc.

Yes. It is superior. I'm trying to guess on the improvement/dollar. Is it THAT much better?

 

[97prizm]

Yes. It is superior. I'm trying to guess on the improvement/dollar. Is it THAT much better?

Not unless you have emissions testing.

 

[97prizm]

It's unlikely that your vehicle is a "California emissions " version.

 

[iCurious]

Your state does not require C.A.R.B. compliant catalytic converter. So just get the EPA cat.

 

[edyvw]

The CARB cat from asking has more palladium, rhodium gold etc.

What about the longevity part?

 

[pacstud]

The third option is CARB universal and cost of labor. I found a CARB universal for same price as direct fit EPA, + local muffler shop to install. Fitment is decent (2.5" oe to 2" replacement). As edyvw points out, longevity? I don't know the juice/squeeze for these. I know nothing made today matches the much higher quality of older cats, so it's math. I guess if they only last a few years these days, labor is easier as the parts should be easier to swap lol.

 

[oil pan 4]

Posted this in the Ranger forum I go to but...

360k mile 1998 ford ranger, 2.5. OE cat. I'm getting a pending P0420, so old girl may be fading.

EPA cat (I'm in Nebraska) is about $350 for a stainless steel Walker, solid cat. Magnaflow has a CARB compliant, but it's just under $1K.

So, is it worth it? I know the CARB cat is better, but is it $650 better? I drive "hot" 99% of the time, no short trips, a benefit of geography. I garage it, so I can combat rust pretty well.

Thoughts?

Treefiddy?
Well the price of platinum and palladium is around double what it usually is.
I'd be pulling the cat and running hot acid through it.
Assuming you can't bust out the hammer drill and implement the final solution.

 

[The_Jeff]

The WALKER 54238 on Rockauto claims EPA and Cali compliance, for $320.

 

[VegasIsCalling]

Are you sure the problem is the cat?

Common causes of P0420 are oxygen sensor, or exhaust leaks, among other possible problems.

I would say, start cheap, and replace that oxygen sensor, you can get it on RockAuto for about $30.

 

[pacstud]

Are you sure the problem is the cat?

Common causes of P0420 are oxygen sensor, or exhaust leaks, among other possible problems.

I would say, start cheap, and replace that oxygen sensor, you can get it on RockAuto for about $30.

I will diagnose. If it's the O2, it's a faulty new one, those are recently replaced. 360k miles so... I'll smoke test for leaks, check the voltage on the o2 sensors, and temp check the in/out on the cat. Since it's pending, I still have time. I think.

 

[pacstud]

The WALKER 54238 on Rockauto claims EPA and Cali compliance, for $320.

I think that's just a weird way they entered it, if you go into item description, it's listed as just EPA.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Sample of 1.

My Xterra the Nissan OEM CATS - (replacements are $1000 + $250 core charge at the dealer) lasted a little over 200K. I can't imagine a CARB aftermarket being any better.

My Eastern Federal compliant CATS lasted about 100K before I was getting codes. But there $180 at RA.

So half as long roughly?

FWIW - the Easterns did not fit very good and took some machinations to get them to seal. I would likely try a different brand next time - I have heard Walkers fit well on that model.

 

[The_Jeff]

I think that's just a weird way they entered it, if you go into item description, it's listed as just EPA.

Yeah, the description says EPA cats are not for sale in Cali, Maine...

That said Walker makes solid products.

 

[iCurious]

I will diagnose. If it's the O2, it's a faulty new one, those are recently replaced. 360k miles so... I'll smoke test for leaks, check the voltage on the o2 sensors, and temp check the in/out on the cat. Since it's pending, I still have time. I think.

All you need is a scan tool with live data. Your vehicle uses a basic system so you can just monitor the B1S2 voltage and it will tell you a lot. You can determine the diagnose with just watching the oxygen sensors only. If the B1S2 is fluctuating a lot like the B1S1 -- the cat is most likely shot. If it has a bias low voltage -- possibly exhaust leak before the B1S2. As for lazy o2 sensor -- snap full throttle a few times see if it's able to peak near 800 mV. Then at 3000 RPMs -- see if it's switching to a low of 100 mV then a high of 800 mV. With that many mileage, I am pretty sure the cat is shot. But do confirm with the live data.

 

[ripcord]

All you need is a scan tool with live data. Your vehicle uses a basic system so you can just monitor the B1S2 voltage and it will tell you a lot. You can determine the diagnose with just watching the oxygen sensors only. If the B1S2 is fluctuating a lot like the B1S1 -- the cat is most likely shot. If it has a bias low voltage -- possibly exhaust leak before the B1S2. With that many mileage, I am pretty sure the cat is shot. But do confirm with the live data.

This^^^^

 

[pacstud]

All you need is a scan tool with live data. Your vehicle uses a basic system so you can just monitor the B1S2 voltage and it will tell you a lot. You can determine the diagnose with just watching the oxygen sensors only. If the B1S2 is fluctuating a lot like the B1S1 -- the cat is most likely shot. If it has a bias low voltage -- possibly exhaust leak before the B1S2. As for lazy o2 sensor -- snap full throttle a few times see if it's able to peak near 800 mV. Then at 3000 RPMs -- see if it's switching to a low of 100 mV then a high of 800 mV. With that many mileage, I am pretty sure the cat is shot. But do confirm with the live data.

That's some good info. I know to just check for the downstream sensor either being flatlined or jumping, thanks for some of that extra detail (I'm new to this). I did the temp check just now after a 15 minute drive, much hotter upstream So that's strike one on the cat.

I'm leaning towards the EPA direct fit Walker. If it's 1/3 the price, well I might just put three of them in over the next decade and I can't imagine the CARB one will last that long. Plus, opportunity cost, that's a lot of extra budget to make other needed repairs in the meantime.

 

[pacstud]

So if I go EPA, what say you on the Davico and/or Eastern Catalytic? I can't see a big difference in materials, etc. And idk that the walker has the hardware and gaskets which is one more thing to get (but not a big deal).