Engineering Dipsticks Leaving Out The Dipstick?!?

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad


2. An oil level sensor is an awesome idea. Very maintenance free. (I personally wouldn't call this over a dipstick cost savings though.)


It definitely is NOT for cost savings, considering some of these sensors cost $100+ just for the part.

It is more for customers not needing/wanting to open the hood.

My friend's 2006 325xi has the sensor. So far it has been okay, lets her know when she needs to add 1 quart. It usually needs a quart by the end of the OCI. It is a little strange adding the 7 qts and changing the filter during an oil change, and not checking the dipstick, but you get used to it. I do prefer my neighbor's 2005 330xi with the dipstick, but the oil sensor wouldn't prevent me from buying the newer car.

 

[555]

That's why BMW broadcasts engine sounds through the speakers on certain models. Unfortunately, there's a big slice of their demographic chart that doesn't care what going on under the hood. Not putting the brand down, I would love an M1. The real 1.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Astro14


I've got a 2005 that doesn't have a dipstick. I can validate the sensor accuracy with a separately purchased "special service tool"...which looks remarkably like a dipstick.

If I retire back to the UK I might make it a hobby to pose as a buyer of one of these pieces of junk, get to the point of signing the finance agreement, and then ask how you check the oil.

(Here the salesman certainly wouldn't know. I was at a car show a few years ago and asked to see the engine, I think of a VW Polo, and it took several suits 15 minutes to open the bonnet, by which time I'd lost the little interest I had)


No need. They do know. The sales folks at a Mercedes dealership might surprise you.

Just walking into one might be too much of a step up from the junk you're used too...

It's probably best if you stick to the jalopy you're driving...


Not that it matters, but there was nothing in my post about Mercedes salesmen not knowing how to check oil.

Long long time ago I did s shorter version of the above routine with a new model of the Honda CG125, which came without a kick start. Annoyed the salespeople, but the only way to really stop this sort of thing is by a negative impact on sales, and that's unlikely. Basic flaw of consumer capitalism; the punter is often a prat, who thinks all this junk is cool.

 

[pcoxe]

Dipsticks are also good for DIY oil analysis. If it's black and gritty, time for an oil change. (There are people who do this)

 

[Astro14]

fdcg27 - The insult from Ducked was highlighted in red.

Perhaps you missed it.

But while his description of my cars as a "pieces of junk" was insulting, and annoyed me, it really isn't in the same league as you claiming that I had no integrity.

Whole different order of magnitude there...

 

[edyvw]

I read somewhere in German magazine it is due to emission standards and that pressure that is lost there plays some role in it.
One of the reasons why I went with BMW X5 diesel instead of N55 3.0 turbo gas is dipstick. M57 diesel in BMW has it (and sensor).
But, I am leaning toward this theory that they are getting rid of it due to emissions.

 

[fdcg27]

I apologize to you again then.
It was not my intent to imply that you had no integrity and that isn't what I actually think.
It was my intent to convey that you'd be more likely to side with your co-workers in a situation involving a troublesome passenger.
I'll also note that we see plenty of bad behavior on the part of passengers and that this is more of a problem than what we observe from airline staff.
I've seen people go off on UA gate agents simply because they weren't allowed to jump the line and board first as well as for not being allowed to board before their group was called.
I've seen people try to avoid gate checking bags that never should have been brought to the gate to begin with and becoming irate when told that they could either gate check their bag (for free) or leave it since it wouldn't fit under any known seat nor in any overhead compartment.
Passengers who travel enough that they should know better often pull stupid stuff and some of those who've achieved minor level status with an airline sometimes behave as though they are somehow exempted from the rules and procedures that apply to everyone and that are intended to maintain a safe cabin and a timely departure.
Once again, I am truly sorry for having insulted you.

 

[Astro14]

fdcg27 - please accept my apology.

You struck a nerve. I realize, now, that you didn't mean to...

Perhaps with all the bashing that my industry, profession, and company have taken, here and in the press, I'm simply left short of patience lately...and it's starting to affect how I read things on BITOG.

Ducked, that goes for you, too. Sorry that I took offense, and was insulting to you. Please accept my apology.

I'll lay off posting for a while, until my usual good nature has recovered.

Cheers, gentlemen.
Astro

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
fdcg27 - please accept my apology.

You struck a nerve. I realize, now, that you didn't mean to...

Perhaps with all the bashing that my industry, profession, and company have taken, here and in the press, I'm simply left short of patience lately...and it's starting to affect how I read things on BITOG.

Ducked, that goes for you, too. Sorry that I took offense, and was insulting to you. Please accept my apology.

I'll lay off posting for a while, until my usual good nature has recovered.

Cheers, gentlemen.
Astro


No sweat. Actually, I'd mis-read the tone of your post. I thought "I can validate the sensor accuracy with a separately purchased "special service tool"...which looks remarkably like a dipstick. " was a recognition of an absurdity, because that's what it seemed to be to me.

Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have risked a "My car is better than your car." contest, which, is usually a poor basis for a discussion whatever you run.

On a survival/maintainability basis my jalopy has some points going for it, but I wouldn't want to get into a [censored] contest with anyone still running a 30 year old Mercedes in Taiwan.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: 555
That's why BMW broadcasts engine sounds through the speakers on certain models. Unfortunately, there's a big slice of their demographic chart that doesn't care what going on under the hood. Not putting the brand down, I would love an M1. The real 1.


VW do the same thing. The engine is TOO quiet. Then we enthusiasts spend all kinds of money on intake, exhaust, turbo silencer ring replacement to hear it better.

 

[wag123]

Call me old-fashioned, but I would NEVER purchase a vehicle that didn't have an oil dipstick, or at least provide the ability to install one. Having an oil level sensor is a nice primary feature for some owners, but I personally consider it to be a good (but unnecessary) ADDITIONAL feature. For several years after BMW removed the oil dipstick, they at least provided the ability to install one if a person wanted it, but now they have removed this provision. Checking the oil level on a BMW with the oil level sensor system is a PIA!

 

[chrisri]

I have made several hundred thousand of kilometers in various vehicles depending only on oil level sensor. Never looked oil level on a dipstick, except on older vehicles that have oil level sensor.

Electric sensors are very accurate and reliable.

 

[oil_film_movies]

The BMW oil sensors would give false readings, fluctuate high or low, take a long time to take a reading, etc. Not problem free!
That said, if you kind of knew you had enough oil in there, you could learn to wait it out and know when it actually had a good reading.
I always checked for leaks under the car, your first line of defense, then a little engine oil consumption would normally lower the level a tad over time. You had to trend the electronic measurement to really learn to trust a reading from it.
I did observe its good (pretty quick) at telling you when you're a quart low or more, as I tried making it that way at DIY oil change time and then observing if it read exactly a quart low, and it did that OK. Then I topped off a cup at a time over several weeks. A strange game.

Lots of people keep putting in more oil when it reads falsely low once in a while, and end up overfilling.

Or, a dipstick would have ended all the games..... but where is the fun in that?

 

[chrisri]

Yeah, I check oil level only in the morning after the car was stationary for overnight. I also park at level ground. Oil sensor can fluctuate a little later (so will dipstick level), but that is irrelevant. First read is important.

 

[Ducked]

When I don't have relevent experience, I often turn to my old copy of Australia's Dog and Lemon Guide to confirm my prejudices.

Here they are on the BMW 1-Series (my bolding):-

"There's also no temperature gauge, but there's plenty of signs of daft German over-design. Instead of the owner being able to check on the brake fluid or windscreen washer fluid levels, as you can on most cars, they are concealed, with nothing but unecessary and quite possibly unreliable electronics to tell you when they run out. There's also no dipstick, meaning you rely on BMW's electronics to tell you when the engine is about to run out of oil. Similar systems on other German cars have proved to be wildly inaccurate in the past."

They don't like newer German cars much.

 

[zorobabel]

I wonder if when the oil level sensor dies you get a check engine light and can't pass smog...

 

[edwardh1]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
If engineers removed the dipstick then we, mere mortals should not be questioning this. As the saying on here goes "engineers know best" lol


no, german engineers