Engine wear/health tests

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Feb 10, 2023
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Other than used oil analysis what kind of affordable/practical tests can be done to determine if a remanufactured engine is wearing in a normal way and can be expected to have a good lifespan? I know reman engines often fail at very low miles. Can these issues be detected long before the engine suffers catastrophic failure?
 
Honestly no. But asking for other oil reports to see how yours is wearing isn't a bad idea. If your engine has way higher wear metals while using the same or very similar oil then that could be an issue but reman engines might just spontaneously fail from something else out of the blue. And there's no real way of telling. Only thing you can do is bump up to a stouter oil to delay the inevitable if there is one and just cross your fingers nothing happens. I'm guessing you have or are planning on getting a reman engine, maybe that 4.3? what rebuilder are you looking at.
 
Oil analysis is the tool to use to see how the oil is staying in grade in your engine and your usage patterns, and if there is sufficient TBN, and any coolant or dirt ingress. It is NOT the proper tool to assess how well your engine is wearing.

At best, it merely provides a trend of what may be expected for your engine in your usage patterns, when compared over several samples of the same oil product. Measuring wear in an engine accurately costs WAY more than any oil analysis does.
 
Honestly no. But asking for other oil reports to see how yours is wearing isn't a bad idea. If your engine has way higher wear metals while using the same or very similar oil then that could be an issue but reman engines might just spontaneously fail from something else out of the blue. And there's no real way of telling. Only thing you can do is bump up to a stouter oil to delay the inevitable if there is one and just cross your fingers nothing happens. I'm guessing you have or are planning on getting a reman engine, maybe that 4.3? what rebuilder are you looking at.
It already has a reman engine in it. OE engine made it to about 400k miles. 1st reman made it to 80k miles. All this was prior to when i purchased it. Its on the 2nd reman engine with about 11k miles on it so far. Runs well, but apparently so did the first reman until it died at 80k suddenly. Trying to decide if I should keep it or sell it. Wish I could somehow test this engine beyond the real basic stuff. It doesn't burn oil, sounds normal, CEL off, etc., but that's all i know
 
It already has a reman engine in it. OE engine made it to about 400k miles. 1st reman made it to 80k miles. All this was prior to when i purchased it. Its on the 2nd reman engine with about 11k miles on it so far. Runs well, but apparently so did the first reman until it died at 80k suddenly. Trying to decide if I should keep it or sell it. Wish I could somehow test this engine beyond the real basic stuff. It doesn't burn oil, sounds normal, CEL off, etc., but that's all i know
If you can sell it for a decent amount I'd do it. It not burning any oil is a start. I'd say to do an oil analysis and see how it's wearing but at 11k it's still wearing in so the numbers would be inconclusive.
 
All you can really do is keep an eye on your gas mileage and oil consumption, drive with the radio off so you notice if things change and do regular maint. The rest of the car has already got 500k miles on it, you cant expect a whole lot more from it. How much can you sell a 500k car for. Drive it until the engine fails or some other big expense happens and sell it to the scrapper for $200. Your cost per mile will still be lower than selling and buying right now.
 
Oil analysis .... It is NOT the proper tool to assess how well your engine is wearing.

At best, it merely provides a trend of what may be expected for your engine in your usage patterns, when compared over several samples of the same oil product. Measuring wear in an engine accurately costs WAY more than any oil analysis does.

UOAs most certainly can be used to see how an engine is wearing. The problem is that most people don't know how to properly apply the UOAs as a tool, and how to interpret the UOA data, and apply it to their application.

Here is the truth about UOAs:
- UOAs will not see all wear metals; they see a portion of wear metals, below 5um
- UOAs imply an overall wear metal concentration based on the % of wear they do see; (it's a representative "sample" of the whole environment, not unlike taking a sample of deer population to determine the overall population in a given area)
- UOAs can be done singularly to check for contamination concerns
- UOAs must be done consequtively to look for wear trends
- UOAs will tell you about the lube characteristics (however, there is absoutely no assurance one way or another that any given criteria is going to affect the wear rates ... i.e. the TBN or TBN/TAN crossover does not always affect wear rates)
- UOAs have been shown in SAE studies to have very good correlation between ICP determined wear rates and particulate loading (some of the "filter" studies)
- UOAs have been shown in SAE studies to have very good correlation between ICP determined wear rates determined with other methods like component weight analysis and electron bombardment analysis)
- UOAs can be hard to discern when changes occur versus normal variation of wear (small shifts in wear metals may be mis-interpreted by the viewer)
- UOAs can sometimes (but not always) discover wear trends when no other garage methods have reported the onset of a problem

Further, allow me to quote myself from another thread:
dnewton3 said:
Finding equipment problems is a function of how hard you look, how often you look, and what tools you look with. Using UOAs will not assure you that you'll discover a problem, but they are most certainly proven to improve the odds of finding a problem. Here's what we can do to find an equipment problem ...
- look for visual clues (leaks and other abnormalities)
- listen for audible clues (clunking, grinding, squeals, chirps and other abnormalities)
- feel for tangible clues (vibration)
- analyze with high-tech tools (thermal sensing guns, non-primary-order vibration sensors)
- do UOAs to track your unique equipment history and compare/constrast against known "good" examples (wear metal abnormalities)
- track fluid consumption (loss, or transfer of lube and coolant for example)
Some of these are outside the cost and skill levels of the average Joe. But some are easily done in the garage at home. UOAs are not the only means of finding "real damage"; they are but one of several. UOAs work well; not always, but often enough to make them one of the viable tools to find problems. UOAs also offer a distinct advantage in that they are objective and not subjetive. They are also relatively inexpensive relative to other costs such as uber-expensive high-tect tools or engine tear-downs. As you add "tools" to your analysis, you improve the likelihood that you'll discover problems as they develop. It's not that you can be 100% sure; it's much more akin to simply improving your odds of accuracy. UOAs are not going to be without error at all times, but they are also not 100% worthless either. At times, they will be the lead indicator, other times not. That is true of all those "tools" above.

There are other means of measuring wear:
- physical component measuring: you have to tear the engine down, which is stupidly time consuming and introduces two other concerns. First, the gauge R&R of hand measuring tools is often poor. Second, and this is a big problem ... reassembly introducts all manner of "new" variable such as torque values, exact placement of bearing journal inserts, unforseen scratches and damage ... This "tear down" method is a fools errand for measuring wear. No normal person has the time and money to do an engine teardown every year to see how his/her equipment is wearing
- component weight analysis: again, to get to the wear parts (cams, crank, pistons/cylinders and associate bearings) you have to tear the engine down. While there are hyper-acurate scales which can measure the weight changes of these components, not one Joe Average is going to have the money to purhcase one of these scales, AND you still won't have the time/money to do an engine tear-down annually in your garage
- electron bombardment analysis: pretty much the same issues as the others ... super expensive equipment that one normal person can afford, and you're still into tearing an engine down with all it's own problems of induced errors upon reassembly

The thing to understand is that there's only two ways to measure wear; direct and indirect.
Direct methods all are fraught with high costs, massive time investments, and induce secondary concers upon reassembly.
Indirect methods (UOAs) are not fool-proof, but are proven reasonably accurate via good correlation to the other methods, and have the added benefits that they are quickly done with no intrusion into the engine, and they are low cost relative to any other means of assessing wear.

The other topics to understand are those of time duration, and quantity of problems.
Time duration is a sense of how much wear is occurring relative to the sample frequency. A "catastrophic" event can be chronic (timing chain eating away at the cover) or accute (con-rod snaps and ventilates the block with a large breathing hole). Quantification of the issue is a matter of understanding if the wear is "normal" or "abnormal". Some engines shed a lot more metals than others, and yet still live reasonably long service lives. Older engine designs combined with older manufacturing processes (the old SBC, for example) make for engines which shed a lot of Fe, but that doesn't stop them from running a long time; they just get "looser" a lot "quicker" than modern engine designs.

Are UOAs a perfect means of mearusing wear? No.
Are UOAs the best "at home" means to infer wear? Yes.
Are UOAs often misinterpreted by most people? Without any doubt, Yes.

Just because UOAs are a misunderstood sampling tool, does not mean the tool is bad or untrustworthy. Don't blame the tool for the errors of the user.


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A compression test on each cylinder, in combination of a UOA, will give you an indication of an engine's health.
 
Compression and oil pressure. Then do a uoa for coolant in the oil maybe higher than nornal wear metals and maybe blowby products.. The true way would be tear down and measure/ inspect Manufactured engines are a crap shoot
 
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The other factor is besides the engine pretty much every other major component has been replaced. 80k miles Transmission, new radiator, new AC, etc. I think if I sell it I will take a bit of a loss (~3-4k) in all likelihood and then I will still want to get another cargo van eventually which are hard to find cheap in good condition. Whats normal idling oil pressure (at normal warm operating temps) for a 2012 4.3 Vortec? Low to mid 20s (psi)?
 
If GM would have designed these vans so that it wasnt such an insane amount of labor hours to replace or repair the engine I wouldnt even worry about it. Only cargo van I know of thats more like a normal truck in terms of engine placement is the Nissan vans, which are so-so overall. I will post some data once ive completed some tests
 
If GM would have designed these vans so that it wasnt such an insane amount of labor hours to replace or repair the engine I wouldnt even worry about it. Only cargo van I know of thats more like a normal truck in terms of engine placement is the Nissan vans, which are so-so overall. I will post some data once ive completed some tests
I drive past Ford and there is a body off frame bay (engine work) that’s going every day …
Seems nobody builds them for owners to work on anymore …
 
I drive past Ford and there is a body off frame bay (engine work) that’s going every day …
Seems nobody builds them for owners to work on anymore …
More profit for the dealers if they can convince people to buy vehicles that are difficult to service which they won't discover until years after purchase. Repeat customers
 
I had a 2001 Jeep that had catastrophic engine failure from piston skirt damage. Bought a reman engine from Marshall Engines,. The first one failed in 5 minutes because the oil galleys had not been properly cleaned during the reman process. The replacement lasted 75K and still going strong after 75K miles
Sold the vehicle

It had copper a little higher than normal in the UOAs. Never caused any issues and never figured it out. I assume there was a Babbitt bearing that was wearing.

The companies that do reman engines (vs rebuilt) are large companies that have expensive machinery so I am not sure why the reman engines are not almost as reliable as new. But they are not in many cases.
 
I had a 2001 Jeep that had catastrophic engine failure from piston skirt damage. Bought a reman engine from Marshall Engines,. The first one failed in 5 minutes because the oil galleys had not been properly cleaned during the reman process. The replacement lasted 75K and still going strong after 75K miles
Sold the vehicle

It had copper a little higher than normal in the UOAs. Never caused any issues and never figured it out. I assume there was a Babbitt bearing that was wearing.

The companies that do reman engines (vs rebuilt) are large companies that have expensive machinery so I am not sure why the reman engines are not almost as reliable as new. But they are not in many cases.
My guess would be because they reman such a wide variety of engines that they don't develop enough experience on any given model of engine to perfect the process. That or there is more profit in slapping them together as fast as possible regardless of the warranty liability
 
Other than used oil analysis what kind of affordable/practical tests can be done to determine if a remanufactured engine is wearing in a normal way and can be expected to have a good lifespan? I know reman engines often fail at very low miles. Can these issues be detected long before the engine suffers catastrophic failure?
Other than oil and fuel mileage monitoring - and general smooth running assessment including good low end torque, you can look IN the oil filter pleats for debris and look AT the drained oil for glitter.

The former will require a Filter Cutter tool that is basically a large tubing cutter that will hopefully generate and shed minimal debris. You can now excise and remove then wash the media with acetone and toluene into a large petri and if inclined measure the gram weight of the dried slurry.

Next add a wet leak down test on cyl 1 and another one or two random chosen cylinders. That may be better wear indicator than a warm cranking compression test. Keep these one yearly readings logged.

I also listen to the exhaust note it should be smooth and not lumpy. If it has a periodic beat This could just be the sign for a tune-up or injector service and not necessarily a mechanical issue.

- Ken
 
The other factor is besides the engine pretty much every other major component has been replaced. 80k miles Transmission, new radiator, new AC, etc. I think if I sell it I will take a bit of a loss (~3-4k) in all likelihood and then I will still want to get another cargo van eventually which are hard to find cheap in good condition. Whats normal idling oil pressure (at normal warm operating temps) for a 2012 4.3 Vortec? Low to mid 20s (psi)?
I have a pre-Vortec in my boat, it runs at approx 20-25 psi at hot idle (after running up on plane, 3500-4000 rpm), cool idle is about 40, max at speed is 55-60 psi. But that is running Mercruiser marine 25/40 oil so if you're running normal 5/30 motor oil it may idle at little less psi. When the reman failed at 80k miles what was the failure? The only common failure point on these I'm aware of are leaky intake gaskets that allow coolant in the oil & then that causes high wear of the bearings, cyl walls and pistons. All that would be found in an oil analysis though. There are updated better quality intake gaskets for these and they've been out for a while. Interestingly the old pre-Vortec like mine pretty much never have intake gasket water leaks.
Mine had a couple of issues, not caused by the engine itself but marine use, the HGs started leaking and allowed water in the oil, that was likely a combination of years of raw water (salt water) cooling and one overheat. I caught it early enough that it didn't damage the short block and installed a set of reman heads, Fel/Pro marine head and intake gaskets and ARP cyl head bolts. That gave it a new lease on life and it's still running well 5 years later. I started seeing elevated sodium in the UOA 2 seasons before the overheat, then 2 seasons after that, got water in a cyl. So that necessitated the repair.
That convinced me to do a UOA on any marine engine I operate, at the end of each season, not just for wear metals but for water intrusion mostly. When the sodium level started rising you couldn't see it in the motor oil at all, the water only became obvious when the head gaskets started letting water in a cylinder.
 

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The old Gen1 350 SBC minus 2. Good, torquey motor. Vortec Flaky Fuel injection with the spider - not so good. That small-cap distributor not so good.
Give me a good ole 2 bbl Rochester TBI
 
Mine's got an ancient Prestolite points distributor and a Quadrajet, old school just the way I like it. No electronic mystery boxes that become NLA when the engine gets to be more than 15 years old. All parts are in the aftermarket.
 

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