Was looking in PepBoys today and saw Lucas oil stabilizer, STP oil treatment, Marvel Mystery Oil, and Restore engine treatment. You add all of these to your oil and they are supposed to make your engine last longer, run better, cleaner, less noise, etc. Two questions, first, what is the difference between these 4 products and second, should you use them at all, in a newer or older engine? I thought any SM or SN rated oil contained all the additives any engine would need, so why pay extra for additional additives. This is assuming regular 5-10K OCI's and a quality filter. Thanks for any info.
Engine oil additives
- Thread starter mbell1968
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That stuff is just made for engines that are worn out,etc,imo.
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Lucas Oil Stabilizer, from what I've read on this forum, is simply some thick gear oil to thicken up your oil. Bandaid for leaks and such to slow them down.
I don't know about STP oil treatment.
MMO is a cleaner with lubricant properties and is well lauded on this forum for a slow, safe, and generally effective method of removing some light to medium sludge or varnish inside engines, as well as a fuel system lubricant and cleaner, amongst other uses. A search will yield much information and anecdotes.
Restore engine treatment is generally used to, well, restore lost compression in engines by filling scored cylinder walls with some sort of powdered metal (I gleaned that info from reading this thread). I would strongly advise against using it in anything but a beater.
I don't know about STP oil treatment.
MMO is a cleaner with lubricant properties and is well lauded on this forum for a slow, safe, and generally effective method of removing some light to medium sludge or varnish inside engines, as well as a fuel system lubricant and cleaner, amongst other uses. A search will yield much information and anecdotes.
Restore engine treatment is generally used to, well, restore lost compression in engines by filling scored cylinder walls with some sort of powdered metal (I gleaned that info from reading this thread). I would strongly advise against using it in anything but a beater.
From my many years of reading this site I have come to the conclusion that most members here are fans of Kreen or MMO. I personally use MMO as a fuel additive 4oz for every 10 gallons and usually put about 4 oz in the crankcase about a week before an oil change.
IMHO, they are all a waste and simply make the seller rich. very rich.
Originally Posted By: tomcat27
IMHO, they are all a waste and simply make the seller rich. very rich.
Agreed... The few times I've tried any of that stuff I never saw any real difference in performance, better or worse, so I quit buying it years ago... No doubt some of the stuff couldn't hurt but if you engine is in good condition, it really isn't needed...
I did fix a leaking rear main bearing seal in a '81 Olds diesel, with a product called "Bearin Seal", but that's it...
IMHO, they are all a waste and simply make the seller rich. very rich.
Agreed... The few times I've tried any of that stuff I never saw any real difference in performance, better or worse, so I quit buying it years ago... No doubt some of the stuff couldn't hurt but if you engine is in good condition, it really isn't needed...
I did fix a leaking rear main bearing seal in a '81 Olds diesel, with a product called "Bearin Seal", but that's it...
You are correct, a modern SN oil has carefully balanced chemistry, and the requirements have been driven by multiple inputs.... wear, cleanliness, resistance to oxidation, sludge, varnish.... the list is very long.
Adding Mouse Milk of any kind is likely to considerably reduce some areas of the oils performance. Most cars continue to run a long time despite having been corrupted by unneeded additives and experiments....perhaps a testimony to the quality of the initial oil fill.
Those of us that have cars near the 300,000 mile mark.... with engines that still seem like new..... sort of chuckle at the testimony we hear advocating additives. Like "I use Mouse Milk Oil additive and my motor is running good at 150,000 miles, that is proof of its effectiveness"
All the major oil manufacturers/blenders have already added the proper amount of each additive, and likely more of any kind will have detrimental effects to other performance parameters.
Adding Mouse Milk of any kind is likely to considerably reduce some areas of the oils performance. Most cars continue to run a long time despite having been corrupted by unneeded additives and experiments....perhaps a testimony to the quality of the initial oil fill.
Those of us that have cars near the 300,000 mile mark.... with engines that still seem like new..... sort of chuckle at the testimony we hear advocating additives. Like "I use Mouse Milk Oil additive and my motor is running good at 150,000 miles, that is proof of its effectiveness"
All the major oil manufacturers/blenders have already added the proper amount of each additive, and likely more of any kind will have detrimental effects to other performance parameters.
OK, thanks for the info., my 2000 Neon with 165,000 miles is getting what sounds like some valvetrain noise with a slight knocking sound. That's why I was looking at these products in the first place. Was going to try Marvel Mystery Oil but was unsure what it did exactly. I guess I'll just leave it alone, no loss of power, performance or mileage yet so I'm not too worried.
If there is a specific problem, then an additive to address that problem can be a help. With 165k on your engine, a product that does a good internal cleaning might be wise.
There is no way any of us can improve the oil the oil company chemists put out to meet a certain price point. If you want better oil, buy better oil. If you want thicker oil (which is all some of the additives do), then buy thicker oil at the regular price.
It would also be a good time to clean the fuel system. Six ounces of SeaFoam sucked into the intake while running does a good job...there are other ways to do periodic maintenance.
There is no way any of us can improve the oil the oil company chemists put out to meet a certain price point. If you want better oil, buy better oil. If you want thicker oil (which is all some of the additives do), then buy thicker oil at the regular price.
It would also be a good time to clean the fuel system. Six ounces of SeaFoam sucked into the intake while running does a good job...there are other ways to do periodic maintenance.
Originally Posted By: Ken2
It would also be a good time to clean the fuel system
+1
Quote:
Six ounces of SeaFoam sucked into the intake while running does a good job...there are other ways to do periodic maintenance.
How about using a product like Amsoil PI or Redline SI once a year in your fuel system, many members have also used MMO at each FILLUP. HTS
It would also be a good time to clean the fuel system
+1
Quote:
Six ounces of SeaFoam sucked into the intake while running does a good job...there are other ways to do periodic maintenance.
How about using a product like Amsoil PI or Redline SI once a year in your fuel system, many members have also used MMO at each FILLUP. HTS
Stick with the seafoam treatments. It does what it says it will do. And if you are gonna add any kind of oil treatment liqui-moly lives up to it's hype
This post is about engine oil additives but the one time I definitely seemed to get results with a product was when I tried Lubegard power steering supplement in a power steering unit that made noise during cold weather, when the engine was first started up in the cold mornings. The product seemed to stop the noise permanently. This made me a believer in Lubegard products.
I have moved away from Auto-RX but I have to say that Auto-RX did seem to stop a seal leak in a car I used to own.
And I do believe that good quality fuel system cleaners probably are useful occasionally. Johnny, who used to work for Pennzoil, said that gasoline is nasty stuff and that fuel system cleaners made sense.
Beyond these examples I have not really found any product that produces miracles.
I think the average person could do just fine using good quality motor oil with reasonable change intervals and other good products (such as automatic transmission fluid and so forth) and drive 100,000 miles or more with no major issues. Just follow the maintenance requirements for the vehicle.
But I do wish that there was a proven, effective, and safe engine cleaner for sludge prone vehicles, older vehicles, and vehicles that had been not properly serviced.
I have moved away from Auto-RX but I have to say that Auto-RX did seem to stop a seal leak in a car I used to own.
And I do believe that good quality fuel system cleaners probably are useful occasionally. Johnny, who used to work for Pennzoil, said that gasoline is nasty stuff and that fuel system cleaners made sense.
Beyond these examples I have not really found any product that produces miracles.
I think the average person could do just fine using good quality motor oil with reasonable change intervals and other good products (such as automatic transmission fluid and so forth) and drive 100,000 miles or more with no major issues. Just follow the maintenance requirements for the vehicle.
But I do wish that there was a proven, effective, and safe engine cleaner for sludge prone vehicles, older vehicles, and vehicles that had been not properly serviced.
Take the example of a lawnmover. Do you really need fuel stablizer? No, not at all. If you run the engine dry of gasoline in the fall when you put the mower away for the winter, and if you always use fresh gasoline, you do not need fuel stablizer. All you really need is decent maintenance with fresh starkplugs, fresh air filters, decent quality motor oil, and gasoline, and the blade sharpened when necessary.
Same with a car. Use good motor oil of the correct viscosity that meets vehicle requirements, and other good products necessary such as oil filters, air filters, etc., don't abuse the car, don't go too long on oil changes, etc., and unless there is something wrong with that particluar vehicle, you should easily be able to go 100,000 miles or more.
Same with a car. Use good motor oil of the correct viscosity that meets vehicle requirements, and other good products necessary such as oil filters, air filters, etc., don't abuse the car, don't go too long on oil changes, etc., and unless there is something wrong with that particluar vehicle, you should easily be able to go 100,000 miles or more.
Originally Posted By: Mystic
But I do wish that there was a proven, effective, and safe engine cleaner for sludge prone vehicles, older vehicles, and vehicles that had been not properly serviced.
I found more times than I can shake a stick at that MMO did a bang up job safely cleaning engines, and freeing up sticking lifters. It can do exactly what you're looking to do, and for under $4/qt. My brother has been using Kreen for a while now and had some very impressive results with the product as well. I just ordered a few bottles for myself.
Trav and I have spoken many times about Kreen as well as MMO, his agenda free testimony along with my brother's findings have me sold on Kreen too. MMO has never let me or my brother down. We've been using it since the 1970's. Opinions vary.
But I do wish that there was a proven, effective, and safe engine cleaner for sludge prone vehicles, older vehicles, and vehicles that had been not properly serviced.
I found more times than I can shake a stick at that MMO did a bang up job safely cleaning engines, and freeing up sticking lifters. It can do exactly what you're looking to do, and for under $4/qt. My brother has been using Kreen for a while now and had some very impressive results with the product as well. I just ordered a few bottles for myself.
Trav and I have spoken many times about Kreen as well as MMO, his agenda free testimony along with my brother's findings have me sold on Kreen too. MMO has never let me or my brother down. We've been using it since the 1970's. Opinions vary.
I am still testing MMO demarpaint. I used it last winter. Maybe not enough-I used just 16 ounces. I am hoping that I will find MMO to be that low cost engine cleaner that a lot of people are looking for. I gave up on Auto-RX, although again, Auto-RX did seem to stop a seal leak. I will give Auto-RX credit where I think credit is due.
I still have faith in Lubegard products. The power steering product seemed to work, and I liked the Lubegard Biotech Engine Supplement.
I still think Bars Leaks can stop leaks in cooling systems.
And I still think fuel system cleaners still have a place.
Other than that, my list of supplements I am willing to use has gotten pretty short. Quality maintenance still comes first.
If MMO works out for me I will use it every winter to keep the engine internals clean.
I still have faith in Lubegard products. The power steering product seemed to work, and I liked the Lubegard Biotech Engine Supplement.
I still think Bars Leaks can stop leaks in cooling systems.
And I still think fuel system cleaners still have a place.
Other than that, my list of supplements I am willing to use has gotten pretty short. Quality maintenance still comes first.
If MMO works out for me I will use it every winter to keep the engine internals clean.
My experience is that Stabil is all but required for winter storage.
I've skipped years without using it and regretted it. Mower and cycles were hard, if not impossible, to start in the spring.
Not like that when I use Stabil.
Had vehicles, cars and trucks, that started running rough and adding MMO or SeaFoam clear that up.
And I only use Top Tier gas.
I have my doubts about Lucas oil stabilizer, STP oil treatment, and Restore engine treatment. My experience with this has been a huge waste of money.
Additives are like that. Many are worthless, a few, MMO, SeaFoam, Regain, etc.. are worth every penny.
Realistic experience and some money loss to find out. Opinions?
Everybody has them. Some are worth listening to, some are not.
I've skipped years without using it and regretted it. Mower and cycles were hard, if not impossible, to start in the spring.
Not like that when I use Stabil.
Had vehicles, cars and trucks, that started running rough and adding MMO or SeaFoam clear that up.
And I only use Top Tier gas.
I have my doubts about Lucas oil stabilizer, STP oil treatment, and Restore engine treatment. My experience with this has been a huge waste of money.
Additives are like that. Many are worthless, a few, MMO, SeaFoam, Regain, etc.. are worth every penny.
Realistic experience and some money loss to find out. Opinions?
Everybody has them. Some are worth listening to, some are not.
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
My experience is that Stabil is all but required for winter storage.
I've skipped years without using it and regretted it. Mower and cycles were hard, if not impossible, to start in the spring.
Not like that when I use Stabil.
Had vehicles, cars and trucks, that started running rough and adding MMO or SeaFoam clear that up.
And I only use Top Tier gas.
I have my doubts about Lucas oil stabilizer, STP oil treatment, and Restore engine treatment. My experience with this has been a huge waste of money.
Additives are like that. Many are worthless, a few, MMO, SeaFoam, Regain, etc.. are worth every penny.
Realistic experience and some money loss to find out. Opinions?
Everybody has them. Some are worth listening to, some are not.
I had similar experiences with Stabil. I found I have the least problems with small seasonal engines adding Stabil to a full tank of gas along with a healthy dose of MMO. I run the engine about a half hour at 3/4 throttle, after about 3-5 minutes of a slower idle, then I fog them with MMO. Once the head is cool to the touch I remove the plug squirt in some MMO, put the plug in w/o connecting the plug wire and then after about half an hour I pull the cord a few times. Connect the wire and store the machine. That method hasn't let me down yet. Storing them dry gave me more problems. I'll store an engine dry if it is going away for more than a year, but I make sure I fog it.
STP was good for quieting a noisy engine, as is Lucas, the dealers I worked at used Lucas to off load bad trades to a wholesaler, when my manager screwed up. Other than that I see NO value in the product. I could write a Novel on this manager!
Engine cleaning seems to always be a hot topic here. A few things people should keep in mind: If it ain't dirty you can't clean it. Nothing is better than properly caring for an engine. And sometimes a product like Kreen or MMO is a whole lot better, cheaper, and easier than tearing down an engine to clean it. Oh yea, don't blame a product for not working when neglect is what ruined an engine. JMO
My experience is that Stabil is all but required for winter storage.
I've skipped years without using it and regretted it. Mower and cycles were hard, if not impossible, to start in the spring.
Not like that when I use Stabil.
Had vehicles, cars and trucks, that started running rough and adding MMO or SeaFoam clear that up.
And I only use Top Tier gas.
I have my doubts about Lucas oil stabilizer, STP oil treatment, and Restore engine treatment. My experience with this has been a huge waste of money.
Additives are like that. Many are worthless, a few, MMO, SeaFoam, Regain, etc.. are worth every penny.
Realistic experience and some money loss to find out. Opinions?
Everybody has them. Some are worth listening to, some are not.
I had similar experiences with Stabil. I found I have the least problems with small seasonal engines adding Stabil to a full tank of gas along with a healthy dose of MMO. I run the engine about a half hour at 3/4 throttle, after about 3-5 minutes of a slower idle, then I fog them with MMO. Once the head is cool to the touch I remove the plug squirt in some MMO, put the plug in w/o connecting the plug wire and then after about half an hour I pull the cord a few times. Connect the wire and store the machine. That method hasn't let me down yet. Storing them dry gave me more problems. I'll store an engine dry if it is going away for more than a year, but I make sure I fog it.
STP was good for quieting a noisy engine, as is Lucas, the dealers I worked at used Lucas to off load bad trades to a wholesaler, when my manager screwed up. Other than that I see NO value in the product. I could write a Novel on this manager!
Engine cleaning seems to always be a hot topic here. A few things people should keep in mind: If it ain't dirty you can't clean it. Nothing is better than properly caring for an engine. And sometimes a product like Kreen or MMO is a whole lot better, cheaper, and easier than tearing down an engine to clean it. Oh yea, don't blame a product for not working when neglect is what ruined an engine. JMO
An added comment.
Few, if any, engines are actually put away 'dry'.
There's gas residue in the float bowl and the jets still have a coating of fuel in them. That will eventually evaporate into varnish. If not cleaned out in the spring, those tiny jets could plug.
I may take a year or two to plug up good but it can happen. BTDT.
Few, if any, engines are actually put away 'dry'.
There's gas residue in the float bowl and the jets still have a coating of fuel in them. That will eventually evaporate into varnish. If not cleaned out in the spring, those tiny jets could plug.
I may take a year or two to plug up good but it can happen. BTDT.
I try to run my lawnmower engine dry before putting it away for the winter. But I agree that some gasoline might be left in the engine. But if a person does run the engine until it runs out of gasoline then Stabil might not be necessary. Although I agree it probably would not hurt being added to the gasoline when you put the lawnmower back into operation the next string.
This spring when I got my lawnmower running again, I did not use any fuel stabilizer. Just fresh gasoline, a new sparkplug, a new air filter, and I got the blade sharpened. It started right up and ran great. I used 10W30 Pennzoil oil in the Honda OHC engine. But I like to use 30 weight oil in the summer when it is really hot. No additives at all in the engine oil although sometimes I put MMO in the gasoline.
This spring when I got my lawnmower running again, I did not use any fuel stabilizer. Just fresh gasoline, a new sparkplug, a new air filter, and I got the blade sharpened. It started right up and ran great. I used 10W30 Pennzoil oil in the Honda OHC engine. But I like to use 30 weight oil in the summer when it is really hot. No additives at all in the engine oil although sometimes I put MMO in the gasoline.
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
An added comment.
Few, if any, engines are actually put away 'dry'.
There's gas residue in the float bowl and the jets still have a coating of fuel in them. That will eventually evaporate into varnish. If not cleaned out in the spring, those tiny jets could plug.
I may take a year or two to plug up good but it can happen. BTDT.
Dry was a figure of speech and probably a bad one. Running them out of gas would have been a better term. In my experience just about every time I ran them out of gas I had problems, even with Stabil in the gas. I found adding MMO and Stabil to the gas, filling the tank and fogging them as I mentioned above was the ticket for me. I store them with the carb full. Last week I started my mower, for the first time of the season. I pulled the cord to slop the oil around, primed the engine and it started with 1 pull. Same goes for the snow blower, when I run them dry I find it a PITA to restart. Granted if they were being stored for a year or more I'd "run them till empty", and fog them just before they were out of gas.
An added comment.
Few, if any, engines are actually put away 'dry'.
There's gas residue in the float bowl and the jets still have a coating of fuel in them. That will eventually evaporate into varnish. If not cleaned out in the spring, those tiny jets could plug.
I may take a year or two to plug up good but it can happen. BTDT.
Dry was a figure of speech and probably a bad one. Running them out of gas would have been a better term. In my experience just about every time I ran them out of gas I had problems, even with Stabil in the gas. I found adding MMO and Stabil to the gas, filling the tank and fogging them as I mentioned above was the ticket for me. I store them with the carb full. Last week I started my mower, for the first time of the season. I pulled the cord to slop the oil around, primed the engine and it started with 1 pull. Same goes for the snow blower, when I run them dry I find it a PITA to restart. Granted if they were being stored for a year or more I'd "run them till empty", and fog them just before they were out of gas.
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