So Vavoline offers a 150,000 mile engine guarantee for conventional oil and a 300,000 mile guarantee for synthetic. I would hope that the engines would run longer than that without a major sludge/internal problem, assuming regular oil changes and mixed driving, no racing. First question is has anyone ever had to make a valid claim on this warranty because of engine failure? And second is how many miles would you reasonably expect out of an engine before a rebuild using conventional oil vs. synthetic? I would say at least 200,000 conventional and 350,000 synthetic. Thoughts?
Engine life, synthetic vs. conventional
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Originally Posted By: mbell1968
Thoughts?
My thought is...............oh boy...get the fire extinguishers ready.
With the correct oil change interval for the driving conditions, I don't think you could find any measurable difference in engine life between a synthetic and today's highly refined "conventional" SN/GF-5 oils under normal circumstances.
Many tests, such as Consumer Reports taxi oil test, proved this.
Thoughts?
My thought is...............oh boy...get the fire extinguishers ready.
With the correct oil change interval for the driving conditions, I don't think you could find any measurable difference in engine life between a synthetic and today's highly refined "conventional" SN/GF-5 oils under normal circumstances.
Many tests, such as Consumer Reports taxi oil test, proved this.
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My '94 LS400 25x,xxx miles has mostly conventional oil with 6-7k/6mo OCI, once in while it had synthetic with 12-14k/12mo OCI, oil filter was changed once a year. The engine is running strong, no rebuild yet. It has some vanish but no sludge and it consumes 1/2qt every 3-4k miles.
I think there's a lot of wiggle room in what you call "engine life." If an engine starts, runs, operates the vehicle, doesn't overheat, passes emissions, but has 3 PSI of oil pressure and burns a quart every 300 miles, is it past the end of life?
If it has a rod knock, is it "past the end of life," or does it just need a (fairly major) repair?
And in either case, can you prove it was the oil, the engine design, or random bad luck?
And that doesn't even address conventional vs. synthetic. I'm pretty much with Drew99GT on that... with most engine designs it would be hard to find a difference if the usual overly-conservative change intervals are followed.
If it has a rod knock, is it "past the end of life," or does it just need a (fairly major) repair?
And in either case, can you prove it was the oil, the engine design, or random bad luck?
And that doesn't even address conventional vs. synthetic. I'm pretty much with Drew99GT on that... with most engine designs it would be hard to find a difference if the usual overly-conservative change intervals are followed.
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And second is how many miles would you reasonably expect out of an engine before a rebuild using conventional oil vs. synthetic?
That is very tough to say. I have never worn out an engine with any type of lubricant. The rest of the vehicle always succumbed to corrosion before the engine gave up.
And second is how many miles would you reasonably expect out of an engine before a rebuild using conventional oil vs. synthetic?
That is very tough to say. I have never worn out an engine with any type of lubricant. The rest of the vehicle always succumbed to corrosion before the engine gave up.
BUT, you have to change oil VERY OFTEN. I think it is 4,000 miles for synthetic !
Engine warranty claims seem to be very very rare for an engine that was 1/2 way decently card for.
EXCEPT:
There are a good number of claims for bad design/impementation and subsequent problems with some engines. [piston slap, valvetrain noise, internal coolant leaks,bad PCV design and subsequent sludge, etc..] This is more like if you buy a zebra, it's going to have stripes.
So dino vs full synth for longevity? I use dino now, but all 5-20s are partially synth anyway.
I believe full synth oil is best for extremes of temperature . Arctic cold and turbo'd vehicles.
EXCEPT:
There are a good number of claims for bad design/impementation and subsequent problems with some engines. [piston slap, valvetrain noise, internal coolant leaks,bad PCV design and subsequent sludge, etc..] This is more like if you buy a zebra, it's going to have stripes.
So dino vs full synth for longevity? I use dino now, but all 5-20s are partially synth anyway.
I believe full synth oil is best for extremes of temperature . Arctic cold and turbo'd vehicles.
If there is no measurable difference in engine life, why would Valvoline double the mileage warranty for synthetic?? It is logical that is because synthetic extends engine life over conventional, hence the increased warranty. Seems like they would know. The Mobil 1, 1 million kilometer test seems to prove this, I doubt conventional would have gone that far.
ALL of those engine guarantees are worthless, borderline scams. Read the fine print, and you'll see they don't actually cover anything.
Didn't change your oil? Not covered.
Oil somehow all leaked out and engine seized? Not covered.
Timing belt or chain snapped? Not covered.
Engine overheated or had some other failure not related to oil? Not covered.
Normal wear and tear, like worn piston rings, leaky gaskets, and valve seals? NOT COVERED.
There, I just listed every possible way an engine can fail, and these "guarantees" don't cover ANY of it. They can guarantee your engine to 6 million miles if they want. It doesn’t matter when they just tell you to read the fine print and tell you you’re screwed. Total scam.
Didn't change your oil? Not covered.
Oil somehow all leaked out and engine seized? Not covered.
Timing belt or chain snapped? Not covered.
Engine overheated or had some other failure not related to oil? Not covered.
Normal wear and tear, like worn piston rings, leaky gaskets, and valve seals? NOT COVERED.
There, I just listed every possible way an engine can fail, and these "guarantees" don't cover ANY of it. They can guarantee your engine to 6 million miles if they want. It doesn’t matter when they just tell you to read the fine print and tell you you’re screwed. Total scam.
I've never seen a modern engine reach the end of "it's service life" and require a rebuild when it was properly maintained with conventional or synthetic and a quality filter. Others may have seen otherwise, but I've never seen it personally.
I have owned the the vehicle in my autosignature with 333K+ miles since about 8,000 miles and used synthetic the entire time. No engine work has been done since a bad head gasket at 15,000 miles and that was a common manufacturer defect on this vehicle back when they were being manufacturered. It still runs like new as of today.
Regarding engine life, my thought is if you use a quality filter, a quality oil and keep up with the OCIs, your engine will last forever whether it be conventional or synthetic.
I've seen plenty of vehicles that have 250K+ miles using conventional and I personally own a vehicle with 333K+ miles on it with synthetic. Regarding engine cleanliness, one of the cleanest engine I've ever seen used Shell conventional. It was clean to the point that it actually looked new.
My take on oil, whether it be conventional or synthetic is use what makes you comfortable or what your budget comfortably allows. If my budget didn't allow for me to use synthetic, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep using a quality name brand conventional because those are excellent as well.
I have owned the the vehicle in my autosignature with 333K+ miles since about 8,000 miles and used synthetic the entire time. No engine work has been done since a bad head gasket at 15,000 miles and that was a common manufacturer defect on this vehicle back when they were being manufacturered. It still runs like new as of today.
Regarding engine life, my thought is if you use a quality filter, a quality oil and keep up with the OCIs, your engine will last forever whether it be conventional or synthetic.
I've seen plenty of vehicles that have 250K+ miles using conventional and I personally own a vehicle with 333K+ miles on it with synthetic. Regarding engine cleanliness, one of the cleanest engine I've ever seen used Shell conventional. It was clean to the point that it actually looked new.
My take on oil, whether it be conventional or synthetic is use what makes you comfortable or what your budget comfortably allows. If my budget didn't allow for me to use synthetic, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep using a quality name brand conventional because those are excellent as well.
Originally Posted By: mbell1968
If there is no measurable difference in engine life, why would Valvoline double the mileage warranty for synthetic??
Maybe you should ask their marketing department? They're the ones that came up with it. Certainly not the engineers.
Since they require you to change your oil every 3K miles under this warranty, regardless if you're using mineral or synthetic, then they had to give you some other differentiation point to justify in the eyes of a consumer why a synthetic is better. In this case, they decided to give you longer warranty. Some of these marketing gimmicks have little to do with common sense, so trying to figure out why they're structured the way they are will lead you to a headache. Their goal is to lure the customer into continued buying of their product.
By the way, these oil-mfg provided engine warranties have been discussed numerous times here in the past. Every oil mfg has one. The cost to offer them is minuscule in comparison to the potential increase in revenue.
If there is no measurable difference in engine life, why would Valvoline double the mileage warranty for synthetic??
Maybe you should ask their marketing department? They're the ones that came up with it. Certainly not the engineers.
Since they require you to change your oil every 3K miles under this warranty, regardless if you're using mineral or synthetic, then they had to give you some other differentiation point to justify in the eyes of a consumer why a synthetic is better. In this case, they decided to give you longer warranty. Some of these marketing gimmicks have little to do with common sense, so trying to figure out why they're structured the way they are will lead you to a headache. Their goal is to lure the customer into continued buying of their product.
By the way, these oil-mfg provided engine warranties have been discussed numerous times here in the past. Every oil mfg has one. The cost to offer them is minuscule in comparison to the potential increase in revenue.
I've owned so many vehicles (mostly bought new) in my lifetime that it would take several minutes to list them all. The most mileage I ever accumulated on one (a '90 Ford Ranger) was approx. 136,000 miles. Those oil warranties are essentially worthless and a safe bet that anyone will seldom/ever be able to sustain a valid claim.
This is a bull#@^% guarantee!!! It's all marketing to make you buy their product. As long as you change the oil as per the owners manual the internals of the engine will far outlast the rest of the car. This so called guarantee is for (oil related failure) witch normaly does not happen unless you change your oil every 50,000 miles. Not saying the oil is bad.I use it myself. just bogus guarantee.
Originally Posted By: Hallmark
I've owned so many vehicles (mostly bought new) in my lifetime that it would take several minutes to list them all. The most mileage I ever accumulated on one (a '90 Ford Ranger) was approx. 136,000 miles. Those oil warranties are essentially worthless and a safe bet that anyone will seldom/ever be able to sustain a valid claim.
AGREE!!!
I've owned so many vehicles (mostly bought new) in my lifetime that it would take several minutes to list them all. The most mileage I ever accumulated on one (a '90 Ford Ranger) was approx. 136,000 miles. Those oil warranties are essentially worthless and a safe bet that anyone will seldom/ever be able to sustain a valid claim.
AGREE!!!
Originally Posted By: exranger06
ALL of those engine guarantees are worthless, borderline scams. Read the fine print, and you'll see they don't actually cover anything.
Didn't change your oil? Not covered.
Oil somehow all leaked out and engine seized? Not covered.
Timing belt or chain snapped? Not covered.
Engine overheated or had some other failure not related to oil? Not covered.
Normal wear and tear, like worn piston rings, leaky gaskets, and valve seals? NOT COVERED.There, I just listed every possible way an engine can fail, and these "guarantees" don't cover ANY of it. They can guarantee your engine to 6 million miles if they want. It doesn’t matter when they just tell you to read the fine print and tell you you’re screwed. Total scam.
ALSO AGREE!!!
ALL of those engine guarantees are worthless, borderline scams. Read the fine print, and you'll see they don't actually cover anything.
Didn't change your oil? Not covered.
Oil somehow all leaked out and engine seized? Not covered.
Timing belt or chain snapped? Not covered.
Engine overheated or had some other failure not related to oil? Not covered.
Normal wear and tear, like worn piston rings, leaky gaskets, and valve seals? NOT COVERED.There, I just listed every possible way an engine can fail, and these "guarantees" don't cover ANY of it. They can guarantee your engine to 6 million miles if they want. It doesn’t matter when they just tell you to read the fine print and tell you you’re screwed. Total scam.
ALSO AGREE!!!
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Just use any name brand oil at the recomended oci and you'll be fine for manny...many miles.
Originally Posted By: mbell1968
If there is no measurable difference in engine life, why would Valvoline double the mileage warranty for synthetic??
Maybe because they charge twice the price for synthetic! Like others have said - it's all marketing.
I had two vehicle go over 300K miles on "dino" or I guess I should say "convential" oil - BACK IN THE 80'S.
If there is no measurable difference in engine life, why would Valvoline double the mileage warranty for synthetic??
Maybe because they charge twice the price for synthetic! Like others have said - it's all marketing.
I had two vehicle go over 300K miles on "dino" or I guess I should say "convential" oil - BACK IN THE 80'S.
I would also guess that most cab drivers get past 300K easily, and I don't think too many of them use synthetic.
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