Engine Cleaners

Status
Not open for further replies.
G

GrampsintheSand

Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
343
Location
Grand Caymans
My question/subject is not about which one or if they work or not.
My solicitation of your thoughts are based on cost versus value received. Let me preempt any "flames", I believe LC20 and AutoRX clean engines slowly over time and do not change nor harm the oil's characteristics.I am going to frame my question to you on an ongoing maintenance scenario and not on a cleaning "cycle or flush".
With that said.
I see AutoRX is $26.77 +tax+ shipping or roughly $2.50 per ounce. That is expensive. I see LC20 is $37.50 per gallon + tax + shipping or about $0.31 per ounce.
So every oil change I would spend $10.00 for Auto RX or $1.86 for LC20,the recommended maintenance dose per each manufacturers recommendation. That is a 437% increase in cost per maintenance treatment by using AutoRX over LC20 if my math is right. So couple of question with all that said :) From a maintenance perspective is AutoRX 437% better than LC20?
On a 5000K OCI AutoRX is $0.002 per mile and LC20 is $0.000372 per mile. If you drive 100K the cost of maintenance doses ( 20 OCI's) for AutoRX is $200.00 and for LC20 is $37.20 for the initial plus the 1oz per 1000 miles (recommended by LC) adds $31.00 so a grand total of $68.20 for LC20 over the 100K miles and 20 oil changes.
If you run a good quality oil, be it synthetic or conventional, and have reasonable OCI's, how much "cleaning" is the above two mentioned oil additives really cleaning above and beyond your SM rated oil cleaning abilities anyway? And is AutoRX really that much better than LC20?
Sorry for the drawn out numberfest but I am trying to boil it down to cost versus delivered added value and understand the values and justifying the significant additional cost of AutoRX over LC20 if either of them can add enough value over a SM Rated oil/reasonable OCI's to justify either one to begin with!
 
The ARX sure seems to clean the rings . Most users have good results with ARX and it seems to prolong the effective life of the oil. I do not know about LC so I will not comment. But then what about the expense of running Syn oil at 5,000 mile oil change intervals.
 
I'm planning on going 30k between ARX....no maintenance doses.

Running an SM oil for reasonable intervals + the ARX in this use does not cost too much and it should keep my engine nice and clean.

I also can't comment on LC20 as I haven't used it.
 
Not going there :)
Had to blend a OCI for the conventional cars and the synthetic cars and settled on 5000K as it is in between 3000K and 7500K OCI's for the purpose of evaluating the cost of LC20 or AutoRX. Yes I know they clean. But with a SM rated oil how dirty is your ring pack without them after 100K anyway? Are you saying AutoRX is worth the extra $200 above and beyond the cleaning a SM rated oil has done and that extra cleaning saves you more than $200 in gas/maintenance cost?
 
Originally Posted By: GrampsintheSand
Not going there :)
Had to blend a OCI for the conventional cars and the synthetic cars and settled on 5000K as it is in between 3000K and 7500K OCI's for the purpose of evaluating the cost of LC20 or AutoRX. Yes I know they clean. But with a SM rated oil how dirty is your ring pack without them after 100K anyway? Are you saying AutoRX is worth the extra $200 above and beyond the cleaning a SM rated oil has done and that extra cleaning saves you more than $200 in gas/maintenance cost?


Gramps, my own experience was with a 2001 SAAB 9-5 that I recently traded off. I tried both LC20 and arx. I got no visually verifiable results from LC20 although I don't doubt it did something. There are a ton of threads on this topic. Terry Dyson has said that LC20 is an antioxidant with a bit of a cleaning side effect. Arx is made from the get-go to be a cleaner. That being said, either one would certainly be better than the flushes, in my opinion.
 
Never tried LC20... I have used Auto-RX and it does an excellent job. I run 1 year Amsoil oil changes so it is less expensive in that regard.

When I have not added RX to my oil after an oil change I notice the pinging start to come back. Then I add the RX and I notice the pinging starts to go away again.
 
what kind of pinging are you talking about - I thought a ping/pre-detonation was from improper combustion not oil related issues ?
 
Not that it will narrow the gap a great amount, but consider that ARX is 26.77 for one bottle, the price goes down the more you buy. Still, LC is cheaper, just making a point.

I also haven't tried LC20, but ARX is a phenomenal product and does what it claims.
 
I've used LC20 and didn't notice a difference but I think that is the point of the product. It is to keep the system clean and keep the oil in good shape, very much a preventative product with some cleaning. ARX's main strength is to clean something that is already dirty, then you maintain it by using small doses to continue the cleaning action, it is an ongoing maintenance product. Neither are going to give dramatic results in a system that is already clean.

I'd use ARX in a system that needed a good cleaning then use LC20 regularly.
 
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Originally Posted By: GrampsintheSand
Not going there :)
Had to blend a OCI for the conventional cars and the synthetic cars and settled on 5000K as it is in between 3000K and 7500K OCI's for the purpose of evaluating the cost of LC20 or AutoRX. Yes I know they clean. But with a SM rated oil how dirty is your ring pack without them after 100K anyway? Are you saying AutoRX is worth the extra $200 above and beyond the cleaning a SM rated oil has done and that extra cleaning saves you more than $200 in gas/maintenance cost?


Gramps, my own experience was with a 2001 SAAB 9-5 that I recently traded off. I tried both LC20 and arx. I got no visually verifiable results from LC20 although I don't doubt it did something. There are a ton of threads on this topic. Terry Dyson has said that LC20 is an antioxidant with a bit of a cleaning side effect. Arx is made from the get-go to be a cleaner. That being said, either one would certainly be better than the flushes, in my opinion.

In reality Terry Dyson said LC20 cleans so well he recommends reducing the maintenance dose.
Originally Posted By: Terry Dyson
Mixing Ratios. While the older LC20 formulation dosages may have been appropriate for the sludge producing engines and poor oil formulations of the late 1950’s and early 1960’s, it is too potent a cleaner for modern lubricant formulations in its present suggested dosage; hence the following new recommendations.

The recommended treatment rate of LC for engine lubes in 4-cycle gasoline or Diesel engines is 1 0z./Quart for the initial dose, and 1 oz. every 1,000 miles or 1,610 km. Do not overfill crankcase.


I have 4 bottles left of AutoRX and will finish them out. Then I think I will run the LC20 for awhile and continue to "observe".
 
In reality, I don't think you're understanding what Terry was saying there or in the 287 other threads where he gave his opinion on the differences between the two.

If you're just wanting to save money AND use LC, then look into the various "soak" combinations....They were pretty periodic, IIRC.
 
Originally Posted By: nicholas
what kind of pinging are you talking about - I thought a ping/pre-detonation was from improper combustion not oil related issues ?


My experience and book knowledge is pinging is normally from too much timing or lean fuel. Don't know why RX made a difference in my car. It started pinging after a computer reprobram at the dealer...

My feeling is that it helped clean the rings and maybe the valve stems and keeping more carbon out of the combustion chamber.

But I don't really know for sure. I was shocked it affected the pinging in a favorable way.
 
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
In reality, I don't think you're understanding what Terry was saying there or in the 287 other threads where he gave his opinion on the differences between the two.

If you're just wanting to save money AND use LC, then look into the various "soak" combinations....They were pretty periodic, IIRC.

You imply I haven't read the other "287" threads your dead wrong there friend. And 287 of them do not address anything remotely what we are talking about here. I am speaking to a cost versus deliverable here. Yes I realize AutoRX is a totally different "cocktail" than LC20 and my thought is which delivers the end results in the most cost effective manner. Also is a maintenance dose of either even delivering any value above and beyond a SM rated oil to begin with. Furthermore Terry and I speak in depth about this very subject ( and many others as I do with Frank and Odis). Now I do not speak for Terry, but he is clearly speaking about LC20 ability to clean in a maintenance run environment and not a soak environment in the comment I quote him on.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: GrampsintheSand

You imply I haven't read the other "287" threads your dead wrong there friend. And 287 of them do not address anything remotely what we are talking about here. I am speaking to a cost versus deliverable here. Yes I realize AutoRX is a totally different "cocktail" than LC20 and my thought is which delivers the end results in the most cost effective manner. Also is a maintenance dose of either even delivering any value above and beyond a SM rated oil to begin with. Furthermore Terry and I speak in depth about this very subject ( and many others as I do with Frank and Odis). Now I do not speak for Terry, but he is clearly speaking about LC20 ability to clean in a maintenance run environment and not a soak environment in the comment I quote him on.


I'm not saying that he was discussing a soak. What I'm saying is perhaps a soak would be the most economical if that is your ultimate concern. I think either one of those is definently delivering value above and beyond an SM oil. It just depends on whether you want to go with lanolin esters or cyclohexanone plus whatever is now also in LC20.
 
Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
When this forum started, Bob was a proponent of Schafer's Neutra as a slow, economical engine cleaner.

You know what Groucho...you are right...I haven't included Neutra in the mix. Thank you.
 
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Originally Posted By: GrampsintheSand

You imply I haven't read the other "287" threads your dead wrong there friend. And 287 of them do not address anything remotely what we are talking about here. I am speaking to a cost versus deliverable here. Yes I realize AutoRX is a totally different "cocktail" than LC20 and my thought is which delivers the end results in the most cost effective manner. Also is a maintenance dose of either even delivering any value above and beyond a SM rated oil to begin with. Furthermore Terry and I speak in depth about this very subject ( and many others as I do with Frank and Odis). Now I do not speak for Terry, but he is clearly speaking about LC20 ability to clean in a maintenance run environment and not a soak environment in the comment I quote him on.


I'm not saying that he was discussing a soak. What I'm saying is perhaps a soak would be the most economical if that is your ultimate concern. I think either one of those is definently delivering value above and beyond an SM oil. It just depends on whether you want to go with lanolin esters or cyclohexanone plus whatever is now also in LC20.

LOL...yeah Odis said they "tweaked" his original formula he "found" on the napkin:) But cyclohexanone is an organic compound and not carcinogenic so I don't wish anybody drive by here and think it is some super high potent chemical toxin or anything :)
 
Well that is what is being asked/discussed!
I wonder why Frank doesn't explore the possibilities of packaging AutoRX in a gallon jug. Seems to me that a gallon jug would reduce his cost and make it more affordable for us, the consumer. I mean he discounts based on multiple smaller bottles today does he not?
In that vein ( discount based on multiple bottles at the time of purchase) why he doesn't allow a running log of purchases that also equal up to a discount? In other words...If I purchase a bottle a month should I not get the 12th bottle free or something like that? I am just thinking out loud here guys.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

alaskanseminole
2024 Audi Q5 Premium 2.0T (37K miles) - oil change interval question
2
Replies
35
Views
1K
tc1446
D
Current best oil for vq35de?
2 3 4
Replies
69
Views
4K
Chief2025
A
NA Miata - MT and RD fluid
Replies
8
Views
274
AngryScientist
S
Filter recommendations now that First Brands is gone (Valvoline/Super Tech oils; personal + mobile shop)
2 3 4
Replies
69
Views
4K
Rust Bucket Rescue
TacoFergie
23 F150 3.5 Ecoboost Recommendations
Replies
19
Views
2K
TacoFergie
Back
Top Bottom