What I meant was that I wouldn't want to have to rely on batteries or wireless in the operation of my bike, no matter how high-end the bike is. I'm a bit of a Luddite sometimes. Probably I should not have opined because it's one of those horses for courses topics.
Electronic Shifting: Pros & Cons
- Thread starter MRC01
- Start date
Do you ride with any electronics it is no different charging a phone or wahoo bolt etc etc. Battery will go few hundred miles not to much of a problem for a guy out on a ride. Again if anyone likes mechanical great stick with it but for me Etap I absolutely love.
I have a battery-powered light and a horn but they are not necessary for the bike to function. As I said, courses for horses.
I did a century ride today with a couple of friends, one of whom has SRAM Force electronic. He told me a few things about it:
- In the winter when his hands are frozen, he can shift electronic easier than mechanical. The lighter touch doesn't require any finesse or feel.
- He has dual shift points on the bar: up high and the conventional down low on the brake levers. So when he's cruising with hands on the upper bar near the stem, he doesn't have to reach down to shift.
- He has an app that analyzes his rides, tells how much time he spends in each gear. He's a data geek and likes this.
- He has lost battery power on a ride, which totally sucked. But only once.
First point I made was about numbness in hands and could relate to cold hands.
Much other data on the group set of its capabilities can be found on website it will do many other things Including customizing shift points.
.Battery issue I don't know exactly what went wrong but usually a swap from front and rear battery wont keep you stranded
What you never mentioned would he buy a bike with the group set again he love it or hate it?
HaHHAHAHA USER ERROR.
How heavy are the batteries, how long do they last, how expensive are they and how hard is it to carry a spare?
I carry water, gloves, snack, covid gear, etc..............
24 grams I have the original 2 that came with bike I picked up a 3rd battery for 55 dollars to add in rotation I never ride with a spare as they with go up to 200+ miles on a charge. You are more likely by 100× to have a tire flat or various other issues on a ride than you are with a Etap group set.
Thank you. Solid information. After this winter (I have Raynaud's) of manual shifting we will see.
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I rode one of the first di2 bikes, long before it was in production (Shimano test mule). After about 2 minutes, I gave it back to the Shimano guy--realizing if I spent another minute on it, my bank account would be a lot lighter...
Faster forward (a long time--took them a while to get it in production), and I avoided it. Didn't want to crash in a race on a $300 derailleur, didn't want to be in the parking long before a race looking for a spare battery, etc...
Once I made the switch, I realized something very quickly: I will never again use mechanical shifters. Ever. Pros:
Is it "worth it"? I mean, it is to me, just from an "enjoyment" standpoint. I also don't know anyone who's used di2 extensively who's gone back to mechanical shifting. Full disclosure, I've never had to pay retail for it. And yes, it's expensive. But if I had to, I absolutely would. It's worth it, IMO.
Faster forward (a long time--took them a while to get it in production), and I avoided it. Didn't want to crash in a race on a $300 derailleur, didn't want to be in the parking long before a race looking for a spare battery, etc...
Once I made the switch, I realized something very quickly: I will never again use mechanical shifters. Ever. Pros:
- they never come out of adjustment, no matter how much rain/grit you ride in (no cable friction..)
- you never actually have to think about shifting (even perfectly adjusted mechanical shifting results in a hybrid "index/friction" thing over time as the cables wear. You may not even realize that you're doing it, but you end up "pushing the lever a certain way" on some shifts
- front derailleur shift is like a rear shift; no effort, can be done under load, no FD rub, no trim on the FD
- tuneable. You can set it up to shift in gear sequence or standard (front/rear)
- multiple shift points. the buttons on the top of the hoods are awesome
- easier to use with beat-up hands/wrists
- cost
- ....
- .......
Is it "worth it"? I mean, it is to me, just from an "enjoyment" standpoint. I also don't know anyone who's used di2 extensively who's gone back to mechanical shifting. Full disclosure, I've never had to pay retail for it. And yes, it's expensive. But if I had to, I absolutely would. It's worth it, IMO.
Barcons are excellent, I have several bikes with them. Simple and shifts good.
The main barrier for me on electronic shifting is cost. I usually use the cheapest parts of acceptable quality and durability that I can get, which for me is usually in the lower range of the groupsets or even off brand like Microshift. I tried a DuraAce Di2 on a trainer at a bike show a while back before Covid and you can reliably shift both derailers at the same time while you're hammering it, without skipping a beat, which is pretty cool for the pro racers I imagine. I mean I was literally standing on the pedals and jerking the bike back and forth in my best pro peleton imitation and the Shimano rep was yelling at me to shift both at the same time, pretty funny in retrospect. Didn't skip one single link.
For a everyday rider or a training bike I think I would have it if it were cheaper, or if I had more disposable income. Or maybe should say, had more disposable income that wasn't diverted into family activities.
But I have to say that, for the very longest rides, I'd probably want to stick to mechanical. I've done some ultra-distance "randonneuring" rides in remote locations and I've seen guys have their electronic shifting malfunction to the point of, it needed to be hooked up to a laptop to be reset. I was on a 600K a while back which is a 2 day ride with a 40 hour time limit, well one of our riders his Di2 jammed and he was stuck with the front derailer only for probably something around the last 40% of the ride, it was about the last 50 miles of Day 1 and all of Day 2, around another 130 miles. He was able to rig it up so that he was in the middle cog in the back and would just shift in the front. This isn't the only case I've seen but it was the time that the person with the failure rode in my group so I was able to talk to him about it a bit.
I mean certainly if you have to carry a laptop for the sole purpose of keeping the rear derailer in order, that kind of defeats the purpose. I carry an extra shifter cable and extra bar-end shifter in my long-distance toolset, not very heavy. I have given my extra cable to another rider before so they could finish the ride. Self sufficiency is paramount on these rando events and you have to be prepared for anything. The focus in these events is more camraderie than competition, and fellow riders will help you, but sometimes if you aren't feeling well and fall off the main group, you'll have to work it out on your own. I've ridden more than 100 miles all by myself a few times after falling off the pack. Troubleshooting something with a laptop is not something I want to think about in these circumstances. It's hard enough just to finish these ultra distance deals.
https://www.rusa.org
Or just carry a spare cable, they only weigh a few grams. I have them in the bag on all my roadies.
Electronic shifting strikes me as a bit of a solution in search of a problem, at least for anyone but the pros.
There are slight advantages and some, to me, bigger disadvantages (chief among those are cost, need to charge).
It has its place but it's a marginal gain at best and probably not the ideal option for all but the elite.
There are slight advantages and some, to me, bigger disadvantages (chief among those are cost, need to charge).
It has its place but it's a marginal gain at best and probably not the ideal option for all but the elite.
You can count me as one of those folks. Well not "extensively" but I did ride a friend's bike with Shimano Di2 and felt... meh. I didn't find that it shifted any better than mechanical, but I didn't expect it to, since mechanical shifts perfectly. Sure it works, but it left me wondering, what actual problem is it solving? What exactly is it improving?
It requires batteries that must be replaced or charged, and is more complex with more failure modes, less reliable. I've had mechanical shifting fail me once (broke a cable) in a lifetime of cycling. And that includes riding in some severe conditions like La Ruta in Costa Rica and similar rides across jungles, deserts, mountains, mud, you name it.
Bottom line, there's nothing wrong with cable shifting. It works perfectly, it's low maintenance, proven under extreme conditions, and lasts pretty much forever. It's been dialed into perfection over decades of engineering optimization. It's also simple (related to why it's so reliable and durable), more easily user-serviceable, and (finally, perhaps least importantly) cheaper. I also like the purity of a bicycle that has no electronics or batteries.
To put it differently, I would not want electronic shifting even if it cost the same as mechanical. I certainly understand that others do like it... each to his own! I don't mean to rain on your parade, I liked your post and enjoy reading what others have to say about it.
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Here are the problems it solves:
-shift quality degradation: this is location dependent to a degree. If you live in a rainy climate or if you're riding a lot of gravel, you'll have grit work its way into the system. I work in the industry, the last thing I want to do in my free time is work on bikes... The end result for me is that after the first month or so, my bike really never shifted that great.. This is the biggest advantage to me
-front derailleur performance: a close second. You can shift while standing, shift front and rear simultaneously or do the desperation shift on the climb, and it always works--and I have never thrown a chain with di2. I used to use a chain watcher on my race bike, but even then...bad things happen to good people! I realize this stuff may not seem like a benefit (just plan a little better!), but reality is that it's nice to not even thing about it. My shifting patterns have actually changed after switching to di2. I'm no longer "planning" around front shifts, and it's nice
-long term performance: I ride a lot, and it a lot of crappy weather. STI internals wear out (even Dura Ace). They get sloppy and don't shift as well over time. di2 is pretty binary (it works or it doesn't), and so far, I haven't had an issue (I have 20K miles on a set of Ultegra di2, and after 10K I would typically start to run into issues w/mechanical).
Funny thing is, I was definitely one of the "solution in search of a problem" guys for quite a while-mostly because I'm cheap and even at wholesale pricing didn't want to pay for it. Once I got it, I thought "my problem was I didn't have it!
I have a bike in Taiwan that has mechanical, so I still drive mechanical at times (and will again if travel restrictions ever ease), and no--it's not actually that terrible--I can still enjoy riding the bike. But obviously I'm really sold on di2.
Electronic/ di2 is superior in every way outside of two things. Shifting with deep winter gloves on and replacement cost. Shifters (most common thing to break in a crash) have historically been reasonable between di2 and mechanical, derailleurs you’re looking at a $300+ delta between the two. I race a lot and expect to crash once if not multiple times per racing season so my race bike is mechanical with rim brakes. If I were a casual rider not racing as much I’d go di2 all day. Point is now moot going forward as the new Ultegra is di2 only.
Charging, just as an FYI, is really a non-issue, you get about 1000-1200 miles per charge which is about a month to 5 weeks for me and I ride a ton. EPS, eTap, and di2 give you a ton of shifting after the light tells you to charge. Everyone I know who has run out of charge with di2 is a either a rich guy with 4 million colnagos in the garage and forgot to check the junction box light, or the type of person that would drive their BMW to jiffy lube 30 miles with the oil light illuminated on their dashboard.
That being said, di2 and mechanical feel about the same assuming you’ve got optislick cables, sp-41 housing, clean lubricated derailleurs. The difference is that unlike mechanical it just doesn’t degrade, my wife never washes her di2 and even after it being packed with dirt, cow ****, and residual hard water from rain it still shifts like a brand new mechanical group out of the box despite looking like Garey Busey’s mugshot at times.
Charging, just as an FYI, is really a non-issue, you get about 1000-1200 miles per charge which is about a month to 5 weeks for me and I ride a ton. EPS, eTap, and di2 give you a ton of shifting after the light tells you to charge. Everyone I know who has run out of charge with di2 is a either a rich guy with 4 million colnagos in the garage and forgot to check the junction box light, or the type of person that would drive their BMW to jiffy lube 30 miles with the oil light illuminated on their dashboard.
That being said, di2 and mechanical feel about the same assuming you’ve got optislick cables, sp-41 housing, clean lubricated derailleurs. The difference is that unlike mechanical it just doesn’t degrade, my wife never washes her di2 and even after it being packed with dirt, cow ****, and residual hard water from rain it still shifts like a brand new mechanical group out of the box despite looking like Garey Busey’s mugshot at times.
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