Electricity storage - is it only looked at if smexxy and sounds "new" ?

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Been an engineer in Energy since January 1989, when I took on an Engineering Cadetship for the then electricity Commission. Spent time in all facets, including my most recent stint, over now of running a power station.

Seems that the "transition" only wants to have current, and emerging technologies (keep hearing what's just around the corner will be "better" - but someone elses plan isn't a plan.

I'm an advocate for build what we can with now technologies, and skills that many many have. Pumped Hydro, but that's not popular, described locally as ancient and obsolete, like it hasn't had millenia of improvements.

This is another example of "emerging" technologies using gear that has been proven for a hundred years...

https://www.energy-storage.news/wor...torage-project-connects-to-the-grid-in-china/

A compressed air energy storage (CAES) project in Hubei, China, has come online, with 300MW/1,500MWh of capacity.

The 5-hour duration project, called Hubei Yingchang, was built in two years with a total investment of CNY1.95 billion (US$270 million) and uses abandoned salt mines in the Yingcheng area of Hubei, China’s sixth-most populous province.


$270M for 1,500MWh of storage is cheap as chips, and many many on this board would have the capacity to carry out serviceing on the machines.

70% round trip not great, but not awful, the Grid scale batteries lose more.

But again, using already proven since the air liquide process was invented...can run that up to 80%...and completely scalable as to capacity and storage...with nearly off the shelf components.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/rio-tin...-energy-storage-plant-with-eyes-on-australia/

We need common sense and innovation...e.g. compress air with negative prices, and decouple the compression and combustion porcesses of our peaking GTs....there's limitless scope, just we seem fixated on smexxy.
 
You say 70% round trip--that is input/output efficiency, correct? I've always been under the impression that compression of a gas was quite lossy due to the heat that is lost. Is the trick to retain the heat, leaving it hot in storage, and letting cool as it is then used?

I'd be worried about overpressure and blowing... but that does pale against a fire that can't be put out.
 
You say 70% round trip--that is input/output efficiency, correct? I've always been under the impression that compression of a gas was quite lossy due to the heat that is lost. Is the trick to retain the heat, leaving it hot in storage, and letting cool as it is then used?

I'd be worried about overpressure and blowing... but that does pale against a fire that can't be put out.
I keep seeing (not you) referring to them as aa bomb...contained compressed gasses are one of the safest things out there...you are surrounded by similar systems all day...air cons, heat pumps and fridges, all acting autonomously 24/7 in your houses and cars.

There's literally billions of small similar systems.

And yes, getting the heat of compression stored and reintroduced is a key element
 
The earth has an endless supply of H2 to power the world forever and I suspect in the next 20 years we will figure out how we are going to harness it. They are already working on it. The earth makes it, we dont. Got me.
https://www.usgs.gov/publications/prospectivity-mapping-geologic-hydrogen

https://www.techspot.com/news/10612...drogen-reserves-could-power-earth-energy.html

Im not saying this is the end of all things H2 energy before I get flamed. But something in the next lifetime is going to come up with something better than the present.
 
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Been an engineer in Energy since January 1989, when I took on an Engineering Cadetship for the then electricity Commission. Spent time in all facets, including my most recent stint, over now of running a power station.

Seems that the "transition" only wants to have current, and emerging technologies (keep hearing what's just around the corner will be "better" - but someone elses plan isn't a plan.

I'm an advocate for build what we can with now technologies, and skills that many many have. Pumped Hydro, but that's not popular, described locally as ancient and obsolete, like it hasn't had millenia of improvements.

This is another example of "emerging" technologies using gear that has been proven for a hundred years...

https://www.energy-storage.news/wor...torage-project-connects-to-the-grid-in-china/

A compressed air energy storage (CAES) project in Hubei, China, has come online, with 300MW/1,500MWh of capacity.

The 5-hour duration project, called Hubei Yingchang, was built in two years with a total investment of CNY1.95 billion (US$270 million) and uses abandoned salt mines in the Yingcheng area of Hubei, China’s sixth-most populous province.


$270M for 1,500MWh of storage is cheap as chips, and many many on this board would have the capacity to carry out serviceing on the machines.

70% round trip not great, but not awful, the Grid scale batteries lose more.

But again, using already proven since the air liquide process was invented...can run that up to 80%...and completely scalable as to capacity and storage...with nearly off the shelf components.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/rio-tin...-energy-storage-plant-with-eyes-on-australia/

We need common sense and innovation...e.g. compress air with negative prices, and decouple the compression and combustion porcesses of our peaking GTs....there's limitless scope, just we seem fixated on smexxy.
Well, you need an empty salt cavern around to compress air into (thats what there doing). We use those to stockpile natural gas. So while interesting, its not particularly replicable.

We have a couple closed loop hyrdo power stations in the US - Flow water from a reservoir during peak, pump the water back up during surplus. Its a similar idea, but again the capital cost is very high, and you can't just put them anywhere.
 
Well, you need an empty salt cavern around to compress air into (thats what there doing). We use those to stockpile natural gas. So while interesting, its not particularly replicable.

We have a couple closed loop hyrdo power stations in the US - Flow water from a reservoir during peak, pump the water back up during surplus. Its a similar idea, but again the capital cost is very high, and you can't just put them anywhere.
That's not the only storage method...

They are storing it as a liquid in some projects, which I consider to be the better of the ideas (liquifaction can strip the CO2 out for commercial use as well.
 
LOL, dirve past a 2,000 GWh storage most days.
Honestly every place is going to be different on what works best.

If you have perfect weather for solar, then different kinds of storage work - especially something like a battery that can be charged when there is excess solar. Solar only makes any sense in certain parts of the USA. Where you are there might be more places.

In parts of the US we still flare natural gas - we have too much of it. Its a waste product. At $3 per MMBTU - it might not be worth it even tying it into a pipe - if a pipe is even available. However with salt mines like China is using for this project - we compress natural gas into, and eventually use it in winter. It would likely be cheaper for us to make above ground cooled Nat Gas storage tanks than to try to compress air. But someone would need to do the math.

I know some people were working on giant flywheel / gyroscopes. Spin them way up during they day using excess solar, the re-use the inertia at night to run small generators. They were inside a container that maintained a vacuum, so that the air didn't slow the flywheel. Seemed like a good idea to me, but didn't seem to take off.

So yes, there are lots of ways
 
This technology has been considered for automotive starting systems... using compressed air to start the engine, and pumping the pressure back up by the engine. They say it would take up the same real estate under the hood as a battery.
 
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