electrical questions

[The motor guy]

So I asked a question on here a while back about working out of a storage unit. The place has electrical outlets, but you couldn't run anything big. There seemed to be too big of a voltage drop, which caused the equipment to be slow to startup if at all and the lights would dim completely at first so I just said oh well i'll just run my generator. The problem is it creates too much noise and upsets people. So it turns out there is another place nearby that actually caters to people who run businesses and have hobbies. etc. They even said they could have someone install a 220v outlet if I wanted to pay extra every month.

My question here is won't I still have the same issue with the voltage drop due to a long run through the wires? Is there an adaptor cord that I can attach to make two 110 outlets off of the 220 if they install one? All the units come with a standard 110 outlet, but I'm thinking the 220 wouldn't have a voltage drop issue. I told them about the issue at the last place and they're ok with me running a generator just as long as I'm mindful of other people with it. They have actual hobby shops, but I'm just going to rent a boat storage unit due to it being cheaper.

 

[bioburner]

If a proper 240 circuit is installed it will still depend on the wire size and length from source. Easy to tap and split for 120. Maybe a invertor genny will solve your issue cheaper in the long run. I have a ryobi 2200 that is very quiet. I see HF has on sale a 2000 peak watt for $430

 

[Wolf359]

Well if they're going to put in a 220 volt outlet, have them leave the other 110 that's already there. In theory it could be done, but you normally have a double pole breaker with a 220 volt outlet and 110 is a single pole breaker. I guess if you end up tripping one 110 outlet, the other would also trip on the double pole. A 220 outlet is basically just 2 hot wires with a common and ground. Take the one hot wire, the common and ground to make a 110 outlet and use the other hot plus the same common and ground wire to make the other 110 outlet. I suppose you could pick up parts at Home Depot and make your own box with outlets for doing that.

The lights dimming could be due to too heavy an electrical load, maybe you didn't have a dedicated circuit and there were others using the same circuit. At a different place, the wiring is probably different so you might not have the same problem. You may have just been on a 15 amp circuit and maybe what you need might be a 20 amp circuit.

 

[The motor guy]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Well if they're going to put in a 220 volt outlet, have them leave the other 110 that's already there. In theory it could be done, but you normally have a double pole breaker with a 220 volt outlet and 110 is a single pole breaker. I guess if you end up tripping one 110 outlet, the other would also trip on the double pole. A 220 outlet is basically just 2 hot wires with a common and ground. Take the one hot wire, the common and ground to make a 110 outlet and use the other hot plus the same common and ground wire to make the other 110 outlet. I suppose you could pick up parts at Home Depot and make your own box with outlets for doing that.

The lights dimming could be due to too heavy an electrical load, maybe you didn't have a dedicated circuit and there were others using the same circuit. At a different place, the wiring is probably different so you might not have the same problem. You may have just been on a 15 amp circuit and maybe what you need might be a 20 amp circuit.


I think the units share the same line as the lights if that's possible. I thought commercial buildings required 20amp service?

 

[Donald]

Without more details about the wiring at each storage place it's hard to know. I assume your tools are all 120v?

As far as the new storage place if they would give you a 220v 30 amp service, you could split it into two 110v circuits and they would be run on #10 wire. Much less voltage drop with #10 wire.

If they already ran electricity using #12 that might be enough to allow you to run power tools.

Also maybe look for a unit that is close to the circuit breaker box rather at the end of the line.

The first storage place probably used #14 wire and only expected a light or two.

 

[Dan55]

A 10 or 12 gauge extension cord might do the trick, how long is your ext and what kind of load?

 

[The motor guy]

It runs everything except the table saw and air compressor, but even the lower amperage tools dim the lights quite heavily and are slow to startup. I'll have to see what the electricity is like in this new facility. I'll probably just run the generator if it does the same thing. That will save me $50/month. My generator doesn't use much gas.

 

[The motor guy]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Without more details about the wiring at each storage place it's hard to know. I assume your tools are all 120v?

As far as the new storage place if they would give you a 220v 30 amp service, you could split it into two 110v circuits and they would be run on #10 wire. Much less voltage drop with #10 wire.

If they already ran electricity using #12 that might be enough to allow you to run power tools.

Also maybe look for a unit that is close to the circuit breaker box rather at the end of the line.

The first storage place probably used #14 wire and only expected a light or two.



I see. Are you saying I could split it myself after he installs a 220 or see if they would install two 110 outlets instead with 10 guage wire? I'm not sure what all they would be willing to do. I didn't ask that many details. I was thinking if they had an electrician install a 220v it would be straight from the breaker box and not sharing anything. I thought is was just a matter of plugging a splitter into the 220 outlet or 240 whatever it is.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

How are you getting power to your unit? If you run TEK cable from the main breaker ... wherever that is ... to your unit, then a panel inside (or outside, but on) the unit, you will not have any power issues. TEK can run above or below ground; your choice.

 

[The motor guy]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
How are you getting power to your unit? If you run TEK cable from the main breaker ... wherever that is ... to your unit, then a panel inside (or outside, but on) the unit, you will not have any power issues. TEK can run above or below ground; your choice.


The outlets in the units share electricity from the same circuit the lights are connected to as far as I can tell. So it runs up to the ceiling and then to a breaker panel somewhere.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Originally Posted By: Donald
Without more details about the wiring at each storage place it's hard to know. I assume your tools are all 120v?

As far as the new storage place if they would give you a 220v 30 amp service, you could split it into two 110v circuits and they would be run on #10 wire. Much less voltage drop with #10 wire.

If they already ran electricity using #12 that might be enough to allow you to run power tools.

Also maybe look for a unit that is close to the circuit breaker box rather at the end of the line.

The first storage place probably used #14 wire and only expected a light or two.



I see. Are you saying I could split it myself after he installs a 220 or see if they would install two 110 outlets instead with 10 guage wire? I'm not sure what all they would be willing to do. I didn't ask that many details. I was thinking if they had an electrician install a 220v it would be straight from the breaker box and not sharing anything. I thought is was just a matter of plugging a splitter into the 220 outlet or 240 whatever it is.


I'm not sure any such kind of splitter exists. You wouldn't use a 10 gauge wire on a 20 amp circuit, you have to use the right wire size for the type of circuit you're using. If it were 10 gauge, that would be a 30 amp circuit and those aren't regular outlets. If it were a 30 amp circuit, I would think they'd use a dryer type plug that has 4 connectors. A regular 220v 20 amp circuit with a regular plug would just be 3 wires, two hot wires plus a ground. There'd be no way to split a 20 amp 220v circuit into 2 regular 110 outlets because you wouldn't have a common wire, the common ends up being the hot wire. If they put in a 220v 30 amp outlet, then you'd just get a connector at home depot, a box with some outlets and then wire it up. I don't think it would be code though because it'd be a little crazy to have a 110v 15/20 amp outlet connected to a 30 amp circuit. That's probably why no one makes a splitter, too many code violations.

 

[JimPghPA]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Without more details about the wiring at each storage place it's hard to know. I assume your tools are all 120v?

As far as the new storage place if they would give you a 220v 30 amp service, you could split it into two 110v circuits and they would be run on #10 wire. Much less voltage drop with #10 wire.

If they already ran electricity using #12 that might be enough to allow you to run power tools.

Also maybe look for a unit that is close to the circuit breaker box rather at the end of the line.

The first storage place probably used #14 wire and only expected a light or two.



+1 on the getting a unit close to the circuit breaker box.

Forget about getting a 240 Volt outlet. If they ran a lite gauge wire you would still have the same problem. It is all about the gauge of wire and the length of the run from the fuse box to the unit.

 

[The motor guy]

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Originally Posted By: Donald
Without more details about the wiring at each storage place it's hard to know. I assume your tools are all 120v?

As far as the new storage place if they would give you a 220v 30 amp service, you could split it into two 110v circuits and they would be run on #10 wire. Much less voltage drop with #10 wire.

If they already ran electricity using #12 that might be enough to allow you to run power tools.

Also maybe look for a unit that is close to the circuit breaker box rather at the end of the line.

The first storage place probably used #14 wire and only expected a light or two.



+1 on the getting a unit close to the circuit breaker box.

Forget about getting a 240 Volt outlet. If they ran a lite gauge wire you would still have the same problem. It is all about the gauge of wire and the length of the run from the fuse box to the unit.


I'll look and see where one is. I think at the place I'm at now their is one on each end and one in the middle. We're talking 700 feet here.

 

[SHOZ]

You need big wire to feed then reduce it in the building.

You need #2 wire for 700 feet and 20 amps.

http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-c...p;x=49&y=14

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Originally Posted By: Donald
Without more details about the wiring at each storage place it's hard to know. I assume your tools are all 120v?

As far as the new storage place if they would give you a 220v 30 amp service, you could split it into two 110v circuits and they would be run on #10 wire. Much less voltage drop with #10 wire.

If they already ran electricity using #12 that might be enough to allow you to run power tools.

Also maybe look for a unit that is close to the circuit breaker box rather at the end of the line.

The first storage place probably used #14 wire and only expected a light or two.



I see. Are you saying I could split it myself after he installs a 220 or see if they would install two 110 outlets instead with 10 guage wire? I'm not sure what all they would be willing to do. I didn't ask that many details. I was thinking if they had an electrician install a 220v it would be straight from the breaker box and not sharing anything. I thought is was just a matter of plugging a splitter into the 220 outlet or 240 whatever it is.


The main point is to get #10 wire to your storage space. Since we assume distance is the issue. Running #10 wire and then drawing only 20 amps on each leg of the 220 should solve the problem. They need to give you a 220V outlet with a neutral and ground. Each hot wire of the 220V wire will be 110V to neutral.

Some motors can be rewired to run 220V vs 110V.

My welder can go from 220V to 460V 3 phase all by moving jumpers.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Originally Posted By: Donald
Without more details about the wiring at each storage place it's hard to know. I assume your tools are all 120v?

As far as the new storage place if they would give you a 220v 30 amp service, you could split it into two 110v circuits and they would be run on #10 wire. Much less voltage drop with #10 wire.

If they already ran electricity using #12 that might be enough to allow you to run power tools.

Also maybe look for a unit that is close to the circuit breaker box rather at the end of the line.

The first storage place probably used #14 wire and only expected a light or two.



+1 on the getting a unit close to the circuit breaker box.

Forget about getting a 240 Volt outlet. If they ran a lite gauge wire you would still have the same problem. It is all about the gauge of wire and the length of the run from the fuse box to the unit.


I'll look and see where one is. I think at the place I'm at now their is one on each end and one in the middle. We're talking 700 feet here.


700' and your good for a reading lamp. Not much more.

 

[SHOZ]

What you need is a boost transformer.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
It runs everything except the table saw and air compressor, but even the lower amperage tools dim the lights quite heavily and are slow to startup.

I experienced the same problem with my new TS, even at my house. I rewired the motor connections to run on 220Vac as I had an outlet in the garage. Made all the difference. My TS is the old-style contractors with a big, heavy 1-1/2HP handing out the back. While there is no mechanical load at start up, these motors pull lots of VAR while establishing the magnetic field. Therefore, inrush current is quite high with only 110Vac, but much lower with 220Vac.

 

[The motor guy]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Originally Posted By: Donald
Without more details about the wiring at each storage place it's hard to know. I assume your tools are all 120v?

As far as the new storage place if they would give you a 220v 30 amp service, you could split it into two 110v circuits and they would be run on #10 wire. Much less voltage drop with #10 wire.

If they already ran electricity using #12 that might be enough to allow you to run power tools.

Also maybe look for a unit that is close to the circuit breaker box rather at the end of the line.

The first storage place probably used #14 wire and only expected a light or two.



+1 on the getting a unit close to the circuit breaker box.

Forget about getting a 240 Volt outlet. If they ran a lite gauge wire you would still have the same problem. It is all about the gauge of wire and the length of the run from the fuse box to the unit.


I'll look and see where one is. I think at the place I'm at now their is one on each end and one in the middle. We're talking 700 feet here.


700' and your good for a reading lamp. Not much more.


I knew their was a voltage drop problem when the voltage went from 120 to 108 just running a 1.4amp fan. Thus why I've run a generator to avoid burning up any electrical motors.

 

[The motor guy]

I'm thinking that even though they put outlets in the units. They don't really expect them to get used.