I'm looking at a one bedroom apartment that I really like. One negative is it has electric heat. I never dealt with electric heat before so I don't know how much my electric bill will be. I live in the Northeast so we get pretty cold winters here. Anyone in a cold climate using electric baseboard heat? If so can you give me an average of your monthy electric bill for heat? Thanks.
electric heat
- Thread starter jeepzj
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You might be able to call the electric company and ask them what the average electric bill for that apartment is in the winter...
We had wall mount fan type electric wall heaters (2) in our two bedrom townhouse and our electric bills were astronomical, so much so the electricity provider came out and re-read the meter once to see if there was a mistake. 18mths we ago installed a single wall mount Inverter type split system air-con and bills are way down. It was only A$3,000 so should be much less in NA.
I live in NW NJ and our electric rates are outrageous, as most of NJ's are. Back in the late 70's early 80's many new homes around me were built using all electric heat. The power company promised them cheaper rates if they did so. Wrong turkey face! They renegaded and now charge the outrageous prime time/only rates. Everybody converted their homes to oil or sold at a huge loss and the new owners converted to oil. Unless you are getting a greatly discounted rental rate you could be in for a "rude awakening" come winter. Do you like to wear parkas indoors and don't mind "cold showers"
Whimsey
My question would be did they also cheapen out on the insulation.
Its common prartice to use less insulation on homes and apartments that are to be used for rentals, The owner/builder doesn't have the pay the utility bills.
Its common prartice to use less insulation on homes and apartments that are to be used for rentals, The owner/builder doesn't have the pay the utility bills.
What's the duration of your rental? If you think you'll stay there a few years steady ask the landlord if you can put in a propane heater that vents outside with a dryer vent style chimney. Just drill a simple hole in the wall. Offer to pay for the unit and installation and leave it for the next tenant; the owner would be foolish to turn down this offer. Get a multi-year lease so you recoup your investment.
I had one of these in a tiny 450 square foot house I rented in Maine and the gas bill was very reasonable. There was a big bottle out back I was careful mowing around.
Bonus feature is most of these units work with no electricity, or only use electric for the fan and get by on convection during blackouts. Handy.
A quick google shows this $400 model: http://www.cetsolar.com/wallfurnace.htm
I had one of these in a tiny 450 square foot house I rented in Maine and the gas bill was very reasonable. There was a big bottle out back I was careful mowing around.
Bonus feature is most of these units work with no electricity, or only use electric for the fan and get by on convection during blackouts. Handy.
A quick google shows this $400 model: http://www.cetsolar.com/wallfurnace.htm
I am an engineer/attorney and I used to be head of the Division of Rate Counsel in NJ, which is now known as the Office of the Ratepayer Advocate.
As a result, I am quite familiar with the electricity situation in NJ.
ELECTRIC RESISTANCE BASEBOARD HEAT IN NEW JERSEY WILL COST YOU AN ARM AND A LEG. It was installed by cheapo builders as it is the lowest initial cost heating system. However, in NJ, it has the highest operating cost per BTU of heat delivered. About all that can be said for it is that if you leave the heat low all day long while you are away, if there is enough baseboard it will heat up quickly when you return and push up the thermostat.
You may be able to get a 12 month billing history from the utility with the permission of the present account holder.
As a result, I am quite familiar with the electricity situation in NJ.
ELECTRIC RESISTANCE BASEBOARD HEAT IN NEW JERSEY WILL COST YOU AN ARM AND A LEG. It was installed by cheapo builders as it is the lowest initial cost heating system. However, in NJ, it has the highest operating cost per BTU of heat delivered. About all that can be said for it is that if you leave the heat low all day long while you are away, if there is enough baseboard it will heat up quickly when you return and push up the thermostat.
You may be able to get a 12 month billing history from the utility with the permission of the present account holder.
Good advice..but for a small area like you are talking about..if its reasonably well insulated and there are storm windows it wont be any problem. I assume you will be able to turn the heat down at times.
You might consider a programmable thermostat--these are not very expensive for 120/220V baseboard heat, about $40-$50. These are different than the ones intended for forced air heating which work on 24V.
Electric resistance heat is based on the principle that inefficient flow of electricity through metal generates heat. There are formulas that can eloquently show why it costs an arm and a leg, but essentially to generate more heat, you basically have to make electrical efficiency lousier. So the colder it is, the bill gets worse nearly exponentially, not in a straight line. Folks with heat pumps will sooner sleep in parkas than resort to emergency electric heat because of the increase in costs.
Electric resistance heat is inefficient because the conversion of raw fuel to electric energy at the generating station is about 25% to 50% efficient, depending on the technology used and the design of the generating stations. 35% is typical. Then you subtract line losses of around 7 to 9% from the generating station to the customer's location, you are down to around 30 to 32% efficient.
On the other hand, a good oil or natural gas furnace is at least 80% efficient.
On the other hand, a good oil or natural gas furnace is at least 80% efficient.
80% efficiency is the minimum you can get on a gas furnace now and they achieved it two ways:
1)Elimination of the standing pilot (it uses electronic ignition to light the gas)
2)Use of a draft inducer fan so that that heated air doesn't go up the flue when the furnace isn't in use.
I'm pretty sure that retrofits to add both are available for the older furnaces which are typically 65% efficient.
1)Elimination of the standing pilot (it uses electronic ignition to light the gas)
2)Use of a draft inducer fan so that that heated air doesn't go up the flue when the furnace isn't in use.
I'm pretty sure that retrofits to add both are available for the older furnaces which are typically 65% efficient.
I agree. Many years ago my wife and I went through a winter in an apartment with electric heat. It wasn't that bad. Done right, electric heat makes a lot of sense for small apartments. The initial cost is much lower, but the dirty little secret is that the tenants end up paying all the costs for apartments. Lean on the landlord for data on the electric bill.
I asked the landlord what is the typical electric bill for your tenants. He told me on average $125 per month. Landlord pays for water and gas so the only utility for the tenant is electric. My curiosity got the best of me so I called the gas\electric company in that area (PSE&G) to see if I could find out some info. I was actually able to find out from PSE&G the average electric bill for the current tenant living in the apartment I am trying to lease and the tenant downstairs as well. The average electric bill is $87 per month. This is a single women currently living there. I also found out info on the tenants living below her which is a married couple with a 1 year old child. There electric bill averages $110 per month. So the landlord's figure of $125 is about right. If it's that amount I would say that's ok.
OK, I assume those figures are year round averages, so it may be higher in winter and lower in summer.
Now that you have the information, you can make your decision to take the apartment or not on a rational, informed basis.
Best of luck to you.
Now that you have the information, you can make your decision to take the apartment or not on a rational, informed basis.
Best of luck to you.
Yes, those figures are year round averages. Winter months are definitely higher espercially in Jan, Feb and first half of March. So I assumme the electric bill will be around $150-$175 for a few months. This is what the landlord said as well. Summer months average less than $100. Based on this information I decided to take the apartment if it's offered to me once credit check is completed in a couple of days. If these figures hold up I will be staying there for a couple of years, if not, well I will look elsewhere near the end of the 12 month lease. Thanks all for the info you povided. I'll post again in a few months.
One other thing-I think if you work out the BTU's-you'll find that Propane at $1.80/galon is about the same as electricity at $.08/KW
That is about the way it is here in AZ. Much cheaper to use electric at $.04/KW in a heat pump in the Phoenix area for winter heat. Summer rates are in the .08+/KW. Gas and propane are both more expensive to use for heat.
I use electric tankless water heaters in the winter to save money and allow me to take as long a shower as I want. in the summer the cold water comes out at about 101F so I don't need to use the hot water.
Well if I don't heat my water it comes out at about 37F in the winter and a warm 50F in the summer. Needless to say without the furnance heating the water I wouldn't "linger" in the shower very long
Whimsey
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