Electric Bill $500!!!

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by gathermewool
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by gathermewool
Also:

Last February our usage shows at ~1700 kWhr (compared to 3400 last January).

June, our lowest usage month, shows at just over 850 kWhr.


That sounds like heating is the culprit then.


Absolutely, but it still blows my mind how expensive it is, especially after commencing our little experiment of spending a lot more time in our MBR.
I was honestly expecting our bill to be lower than December, since we haven't had many visitors this past month and it's been mostly mild all month.

I feel your pain, here in Ontario we pay some of the highest electricity rates in North America thanks to mismanagement by the previous party in power here so our bills at your consumption rates would like have been higher once all costs are factored into the bill.

 

[AZjeff]

Originally Posted by gathermewool
We just turned down a Power Pay Agreement with a local solar vendor, but my plan is to have solar installed when we replace our roof in ~5 years. Using the majority of our south-facing roof (and with half a dozen panels on the north side), they were able to calculate size a system for 85% of our use over the past year, including the $575 we paid for our first full month here last January.


Hopefully your solar calcs are based on heating your house at more normal temps! I looked at available sunshine charts and New England isn't too good (no surprise). Do many go solar around you and did you get an ROI for a solar system?

 

[ironman_gq]

My brother's power bill went up dramatically when the lower element in his water heater died. Our power is relatively cheap but his bill went up $80, the upper element was basically on full time when the lower one failed

 

[Kjmack]

I'm 100% electric , my heat is geothermal forced air . 3,300 sq. Ft. home with basement and 5 car garage and 2 large pole buildings . I'm always doing projects in the outbuildings which power tools are used .
I get a discounted rate for having geoheat , I have never looked at the actual cost per kilowatts but my last bill Dec. 19th to Jan. 19th was $264.00 . If I was on natural gas I'm sure it would be in the ouch range . When I had the system installed I had 50% longer loops put in which is supposed to be more efficient , which I know now is true .

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by AZjeff

Originally Posted by gathermewool
We just turned down a Power Pay Agreement with a local solar vendor, but my plan is to have solar installed when we replace our roof in ~5 years. Using the majority of our south-facing roof (and with half a dozen panels on the north side), they were able to calculate size a system for 85% of our use over the past year, including the $575 we paid for our first full month here last January.


Hopefully your solar calcs are based on heating your house at more normal temps! I looked at available sunshine charts and New England isn't too good (no surprise). Do many go solar around you and did you get an ROI for a solar system?


Yeah, that's worth looking at. A guy I follow on Twitter who lives here in Ontario, his average CF in the winter months can be utterly abysmal, sometimes as low as 3%. He has a 2.8kW 1-axis tracking array. Yesterday he actually did pretty well, he generated 15.3kWh with clear skies; 22% CF. The day before he generated 9.3kWh; 14% CF, day before 8.9kWh; 13% CF, day before 2.4kWh 4% CF.

 

[Vikas]

Quote
3,300 sq. Ft. home with basement and 5 car garage

You own this forum

 

[Kjmack]

I'm in the country . I didn't mention I have a well pump also and my wife loves to take 2 baths a day . My electric company has a app. That you can track your daily usage . I check it every day just to see if there is any annomoly , like somebody earlier said a burned out water heater element or similar .

 

[Kjmack]

Hey wool , it sounds like your only been in this house a couple of years . Most power company's have a better rate for people that have electric heat , have you checked with them to see if your getting the discount ?

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted by StevieC

I feel your pain, here in Ontario we pay some of the highest electricity rates in North America thanks to mismanagement by the previous party in power here so our bills at your consumption rates would like have been higher once all costs are factored into the bill.

I dont think your rates are that high comparatively, now they might be much higher than previously eh? but actually high? research some of the bigger cities in USA and its not high compared to them. IIRC it is slightly higher than my rate in ohio..

of course since many use different billing systems its not always an easy comparison. Mine is all flat rate. Some others might have peak, off peak, others use different rates depending on total usage (in kwh) etc.

How about posting up a bill? or at least KWH and total.
I have electric everything except gas forced air heat, and a hybrid heat pump hot water tank in efficient heat pump only mode.
For comparison my last bill was 739 KWH@$.0517($38 generation cost), total bill all in is $95

I know I could lower my non-seasonal(a/c)electric usage by at least 1/3 with a gas hot water tank, and gas dryer... The hot water tank will probably come in the next 5 years.. but gas dryer probably never.. maybe one of those efficient euro electric types though.

 

[StevieC]

For comparison... The provincial rebate is a temporary program so that normally wouldn't be there (long story) and it will eventually push these rates higher because we are getting this fake rebate now.
Plus we got a notice that rates are going up approximately $10 / month for the average consumer. I'm over average so figure in $12 extra for me.

So it's about $0.16/kwhr average based on my consumption and times when all this is added / factored in including taxes.

 

[OVERKILL]

As Stevie noted, our rates are currently being artificially depressed via the "Fair Hydro Scam" which will cost 10's of billions of dollars in the future and was perpetrated as an election ploy, since rapidly increasing electricity prices were seen as a key issue with voters. It didn't work.

Our real rates are actually:
Off-peak: $0.087
Mid-peak: $0.132
On-peak: $0.180

So Stevie's bill should have been:
Off: $52.79
Mid: $15.77
On: $22.68
Sub-sub-Total: $91.24
Delivery: $42.37
Regulatory: $3.69
Sub-Total: $137.27
HST: $17.85
Total: $155.12

Not factoring in tax, 852.28kWh @ $137.27 = $0.16/kWh effective rate based on StevieC's usage profile, which is predominantly geared toward off and mid peak.

The effective rate for rural ratepayers is much, MUCH higher, due to an increase in the Delivery charge. IIRC, the last time I ran the numbers for my buddy who lives in Warsaw, his effective rate was around $0.25/kWh.

 

[StevieC]

I'll confirm that in Northern Ontario. My family in Parry Sound and surrounding areas are getting gouged large and it's like you claim about $0.25 or so depending on their usage profile.

And since we are on the subject... The above bill was a recent winter bill. This one is from the summer, as you can see the A/C eats the power.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yes, using that bill, let's look at the numbers using the real rates:
Off-peak: $0.087
Mid-peak: $0.132
On-peak: $0.180

1312.62kWh off peak: $114.20
310.63kWh mid peak: $41.00
354.21kWh oon peak: $63.76
Delivery: $66.72
Regulatory: $8.26
Total: $293.94

Effective rate: $0.15/kWh

Total w/tax: $332.15, which is close to the OP's bill, despite significantly lower usage.

 

[StevieC]

Thanks Overkill

 

[gathermewool]

We have a Sh!tzuh (really, [censored] is censored!?). I keep telling my wife that we can't afford her dog...

He's about as dumb as they get, and now he's old and blind, pooping and peeing where ever he pleases... I'm not a fan.

He'll likely live to 20, just despite me...

 

[SEMI_287]

That's insane. I'm so glad I have a coal/wood stove and a point of use water heater.

 

[gathermewool]

I don't understand how a blown water heater element would cause an increase in consumption DUE TO the other element having to work harder.

A water heater wants to maintain a temperature and, if one element is gone, should use less energy, if one element couldn't or will barely keep up, right?

That is, unless the failure mode is a short in the heater element near the outside of the tank, so that consumption remains high, though little of that heat is input into the tank.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Yes, using that bill, let's look at the numbers using the real rates:
Off-peak: $0.087
Mid-peak: $0.132
On-peak: $0.180

1312.62kWh off peak: $114.20
310.63kWh mid peak: $41.00
354.21kWh oon peak: $63.76
Delivery: $66.72
Regulatory: $8.26
Total: $293.94

Effective rate: $0.15/kWh

Total w/tax: $332.15, which is close to the OP's bill, despite significantly lower usage.


so how does that compare to mine? looks like for me delivery is higher, the regulatory is higher and the electricity is cheaper?

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted by gathermewool
Current kWhr usage: 2163

Last January: 3314


Holy crap!

Our normal usage is around 350 kWhr/month.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Rand
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Yes, using that bill, let's look at the numbers using the real rates:
Off-peak: $0.087
Mid-peak: $0.132
On-peak: $0.180

1312.62kWh off peak: $114.20
310.63kWh mid peak: $41.00
354.21kWh oon peak: $63.76
Delivery: $66.72
Regulatory: $8.26
Total: $293.94

Effective rate: $0.15/kWh

Total w/tax: $332.15, which is close to the OP's bill, despite significantly lower usage.


so how does that compare to mine? looks like for me delivery is higher, the regulatory is higher and the electricity is cheaper?


You've got some funky charges there! What's the "Customer Charge" and "Cost Recovery Charge"?

If we run the math on yours including Distribution we get:
739kWh flat rate: $38.21
Delivery: $38.99
Total: $77.20

Effective rate: $0.10/kWh

If we factor in all of the "extra" costs you end up at $0.13/kWh.

However, if Stevie was using power during the day, his effective rate would go up significantly, yours would remain the same. Also, his distribution cost is loosely attached to consumption, so the more power he uses, the more distribution he pays. Yours appears to be a flat rate. So, say for example you used 1,300kWh, your effective rate would drop, whilst his would not.

Here's a classic rural Ontario bill for somebody with electric heat like the OP:

So:
678.06kWh On-peak: $122.05
692.15kWh mid-peak: $91.36
2,644.80kWh off-peak: $230.10
Delivery: $311.38
Regulatory: $26.87
Total: $781.76

Effective rate: $0.19/kWh.

Now imagine this was an elderly person home during the day. We'll take our 4,015kWh and divide them equally:
1,338.34kWh on-peak: $240.90
1,338.34kWh mid-peak: $176.66
1,338.34kWh off-peak: $116.44
Delivery: $311.38
Regulatory: $26.87
Total: $872.25

Effective rate: $0.22/kWh

Now, pretend you are a small business owner whose usage predominantly occurs during the day? The effective rate is yet again even higher.

And even if you are frugal like some rural Ontario ratepayers, it still doesn't help, because minimum delivery for low-density rural is high, so it just drives up your effective rate