I just tried my first E-core ST3980 on my 01 Malibu with a 3.1L motor. I am suprised at how quiet my start-ups are now compared to the white purolater filters I normally use. I tried the E-core because I just started my first Auto-RX phase and wanted to try a different filter. I used my same old Havoline 5w30 but noticed right away my cold starts had much less noise then I ever had with the Purolater's. Anyone else have any good/bad experience's with the E-core?
E-core and start-up noise
- Thread starter wymi
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I'm running an E-core right now on a 94 Saturn and I'm not noticing anything unusual. But it is summer and I only notice startup noise differences in the winter.
The one thing I really don't like about Purolator is the typically very high pressure required to open the bypass valve compared to other brands. That could account for startup noise on cold starts.
There is a great deal of mistrust of the E-cores right now, but I think some of that will go away. There are some things to like about the E-core design if it proves to work well: The bypass design won't allow oil to wash over the dirty side of the filter, the nylon cage has far less restriction than steel center tubes, and the price.
The one thing I really don't like about Purolator is the typically very high pressure required to open the bypass valve compared to other brands. That could account for startup noise on cold starts.
There is a great deal of mistrust of the E-cores right now, but I think some of that will go away. There are some things to like about the E-core design if it proves to work well: The bypass design won't allow oil to wash over the dirty side of the filter, the nylon cage has far less restriction than steel center tubes, and the price.
The bypass on E-cores is at the baseplate of the filter and is part of the anti-drainback valve, so there is nothing to see at the far end. That's why the oil doesn't wash over the dirty side of the filter in bypass- the oil bypasses at the baseplate directly, not at the far end.
http://www.champlabs.com/Ecore_FAQ.htm
http://www.champlabs.com/Ecore_FAQ.htm
Following the link kanling posted:
''Why are there extra holes in the threaded plate?
The inboard ring of holes is a portion of the relief valve mechanism. The outboard ring of holes is the normal oil inlet holes.'' No extra holes, no bypass.
"The inboard ring of holes is a portion of the relief valve mechanism. The outboard ring of holes is the normal oil inlet holes.'' No extra holes, no bypass."
There was only one set of holes on the ST3980, so that means no bypass then. This new design must really have some good flow capability!
There was only one set of holes on the ST3980, so that means no bypass then. This new design must really have some good flow capability!
Well this is bizarre. If the filter doesn't have a bypass then that obviously isn't the reason for the start-up noise difference. What orientation is the filter mounted in? If it's the open side down, then the antidrainback valve may be the issue. Open side up, it's not the filter and maybe the ARX is doing its thing.
Hey Filter Guy? I have long suspected that since holes are cheaper than media, the flow of a filter is largely determined by the media. No manufacturer would be dumb enough to skimp on inlet or center tube holes. Can you confirm that?
"Well this is bizarre. If the filter doesn't have a bypass then that obviously isn't the reason for the start-up noise difference. What orientation is the filter mounted in? If it's the open side down, then the antidrainback valve may be the issue. Open side up, it's not the filter and maybe the ARX is doing its thing."
The start up noise on my 3.1L starts about 15 to 20 seconds after I start the motor. I have no noise in the first 15 to 20 seconds. The only thing I can figure is that the internal bypass is doing it's thing by bypassing the filter in those first few seconds preventing any noise. After that time the bypass opens up and now oil is flowing through the filter. It's strange but it's the only thing that makes sense to me. I would like to hear any other theory on why the ticking noise comes on only after a short time and not as soon as the motor starts. BTW, the ticking goes away after another 20 seconds and the motor is very quiet after that while running. One more odd thing in my Alien motor, hot starts tick just like cold starts, and again it seems like once the oil starts flowing all is quiet. Is the E-core keeping all these starting noises much quieter? I only have about 500 miles on the auto-RX treatment, could it be possible it's quieting things down already? The filter has the open end pointing up, so no ADBV issues.
[ August 29, 2005, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: wymi ]
The start up noise on my 3.1L starts about 15 to 20 seconds after I start the motor. I have no noise in the first 15 to 20 seconds. The only thing I can figure is that the internal bypass is doing it's thing by bypassing the filter in those first few seconds preventing any noise. After that time the bypass opens up and now oil is flowing through the filter. It's strange but it's the only thing that makes sense to me. I would like to hear any other theory on why the ticking noise comes on only after a short time and not as soon as the motor starts. BTW, the ticking goes away after another 20 seconds and the motor is very quiet after that while running. One more odd thing in my Alien motor, hot starts tick just like cold starts, and again it seems like once the oil starts flowing all is quiet. Is the E-core keeping all these starting noises much quieter? I only have about 500 miles on the auto-RX treatment, could it be possible it's quieting things down already? The filter has the open end pointing up, so no ADBV issues.
[ August 29, 2005, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: wymi ]
How can you "skimp" on the outlet hole? The hole is dictated by the thread size.
Also, the inlet holes, be they 4-6-8, are the same surface area as the outlet hole.
That's how the filter doesn't restrict oil flow by more than 1psid when new.
If you take the hole size of the inlet*, multiply by the # of holes, that surface area should be equal or slightly greater to the outlet hole.
* Champ does use 1 inlet hole that is slightly larger than the rest on most every automotive filter. This is for orientation on the assembly line to screen the filter with it's logo.
I'm looking at four filters for a Camry right now (will have some pics posted in a week or two). In all of them, the combined inlet hole total area is less than the outlet hole. (I don't have an E-core in this case.)
For the case of this Malibu E-core, maybe the lower startup noise has to do with more effective media area providing much less flow restriction. The E-core nylon cage blocks off very little media area. This theory assumes that the majority of the flow restriction is in the media and not the inlet/outlet holes. In my opinion, in traditional center tubes the media "between the holes" is almost useless because very little oil will flow through it.
For the case of this Malibu E-core, maybe the lower startup noise has to do with more effective media area providing much less flow restriction. The E-core nylon cage blocks off very little media area. This theory assumes that the majority of the flow restriction is in the media and not the inlet/outlet holes. In my opinion, in traditional center tubes the media "between the holes" is almost useless because very little oil will flow through it.
I vote for the ARX.
It is true the outlet is controlled by the engine, but there could be too little area for oil to flow through the center tube. My point is that however well the oil flows through the E-core center, surely the old metal tubes did have enough holes to exceed the media flow.
Also, some day I am going to look up the equation for flow through a hole. For now, I am going to assume it is much like a pipe, where you need 16 ones half as big to equal the pressure drop of one.
Also, some day I am going to look up the equation for flow through a hole. For now, I am going to assume it is much like a pipe, where you need 16 ones half as big to equal the pressure drop of one.
From what I have seen of the new E-Cores,the inlet holes are all the same size,theres not any hole(s) that are bigger than the others.
The inlet holes are very similar in size to Fram filters.
Also,the 3980 filter is a GM application and does not need an internal by-pass valve.
GM engines have the by-pass valves built into the engine.
The inlet holes are very similar in size to Fram filters.
Also,the 3980 filter is a GM application and does not need an internal by-pass valve.
GM engines have the by-pass valves built into the engine.
E-core is a different animal as far as the one hole being larger.
The "older" filters had the bigger hole to orient the filter for the silk screening process. That is where the logo is painted on the filter can. Champ could use as many as 4 colors. In order to make sure the colors went where they should, the one larger hole was used to "control" the process.
E-core does not use this manufacturing process, as far as I know.
I only mentioned the larger hole for those who might have one and ask what it is..
The "older" filters had the bigger hole to orient the filter for the silk screening process. That is where the logo is painted on the filter can. Champ could use as many as 4 colors. In order to make sure the colors went where they should, the one larger hole was used to "control" the process.
E-core does not use this manufacturing process, as far as I know.
I only mentioned the larger hole for those who might have one and ask what it is..
i was just wondering the same thing after using a white Quaker State purolator for the first time also on my wifes escort. it was quiet for the first 200 mi or so.. i've never had the issue with the motorcraft filter which is also a purolator if i understand right. maybe the adbv is different or bad? i'll swap it out and see if it goes away.
what is the e-core for an 03 f150????
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