Dyno user considering Synthetic.

[Gabe]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Non of the major brands are "real" synthtec" (save for PU). All the major oil Co's lie like dogs about their oil being synthetic - it aint no such thing! - its just premium mineral oil.

One of these days I'll try some Amsoil Signature ATM or whatnot just to see what a real synthetic oil performs like.


None of this is true. I just thought I would point that out...

 

[Garak]

ARCO is being picky about the synthetic definition, where only Group III+, IV, and V are synthetics. If that's his definition of synthetic (and there are some in the industry for whom that's the case), then he has a point.

There are other real synthetics out there besides PU, by ARCO's definition. I'd go with GC, Red Line, and Delvac 1 as meeting his criteria, for starters, not to mention RP (at least the HPS line) and some Amsoil products, as he mentioned.

But, if you read what he says, he has no problem using Quaker State Ultimate Durability, even though he doesn't classify it as a real synthetic. So, I suggest ARCO is being picky about the definition, not about the product itself.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Non of the major brands are "real" synthtec" (save for PU). All the major oil Co's lie like dogs about their oil being synthetic - it aint no such thing! - its just premium mineral oil.

Run what the car likes. Mine likes Quaker State Ultimate Durability OK today.

So how does being lied TO ALL THESE YEARS to make you feel?

One of these days I'll try some Amsoil Signature ATM or whatnot just to see what a real synthetic oil performs like.


^^This. A true synthetic to me would be a pao or ester. If I read correctly,the op's new engine is a 50k used one,so a name brand dino is all he needs.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Gabe
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Non of the major brands are "real" synthtec" (save for PU). All the major oil Co's lie like dogs about their oil being synthetic - it aint no such thing! - its just premium mineral oil.

One of these days I'll try some Amsoil Signature ATM or whatnot just to see what a real synthetic oil performs like.


None of this is true. I just thought I would point that out...



Check your facts, I just thought I would point that out...
It's mostly semantics, but today’s synthetics would never be labeled as such 15 years ago or something like that.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Gabe
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Non of the major brands are "real" synthtec" (save for PU). All the major oil Co's lie like dogs about their oil being synthetic - it aint no such thing! - its just premium mineral oil.

One of these days I'll try some Amsoil Signature ATM or whatnot just to see what a real synthetic oil performs like.


None of this is true. I just thought I would point that out...
Hydrocracking/forming Mineral oil into grpiii stock is not a building-block synthesis by any definition.
I'll give GTL the nod.
Show me the grp III with -65f gelation.

I know my constant harping can be tiring - but its a crusade I will never give up.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Gabe
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Non of the major brands are "real" synthtec" (save for PU). All the major oil Co's lie like dogs about their oil being synthetic - it aint no such thing! - its just premium mineral oil.

One of these days I'll try some Amsoil Signature ATM or whatnot just to see what a real synthetic oil performs like.


None of this is true. I just thought I would point that out...
Hydrocracking/forming Mineral oil into grpiii stock is not a building-block synthesis by any definition.
I'll give GTL the nod.
Show me the grp III with -65f gelation.

I know my constant harping can be tiring - but its a crusade I will never give up.




Right on Arco!

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Gabe
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Non of the major brands are "real" synthtec" (save for PU). All the major oil Co's lie like dogs about their oil being synthetic - it aint no such thing! - its just premium mineral oil.

One of these days I'll try some Amsoil Signature ATM or whatnot just to see what a real synthetic oil performs like.


None of this is true. I just thought I would point that out...
Hydrocracking/forming Mineral oil into grpiii stock is not a building-block synthesis by any definition.
I'll give GTL the nod.
Show me the grp III with -65f gelation.

I know my constant harping can be tiring - but its a crusade I will never give up.




Why would it matter? Because my engines are not cold starting in a -65F environment and there is very very few PCMO'S on the market that could "thrive" in that environment.

 

[Gabe]

During the Pennzoil FB Q&A, somebody asked if PU contained PAO and GTL. Pennzoil answered 'yes' to both questions. That is all that was disclosed; that is all we know.

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Hydrocracking/forming Mineral oil into grpiii stock is not a building-block synthesis by any definition.
I'll give GTL the nod.
Show me the grp III with -65f gelation.

I know my constant harping can be tiring - but its a crusade I will never give up.


As long as the molecules are uniform, why do you care where the hydrocarbons come from?? For some reason, people are stuck in the outdated notion that only natural gas and animal fats are able to be refined.

 

[Gabe]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

today’s synthetics would never be labeled as such 15 years ago or something like that.


Motor oil has moved in leaps and bounds in the past 10 years. I have an old advertising pencil on my desk: "Kendall the 2000 mile oil."

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Gabe
Originally Posted By: KrisZ

today’s synthetics would never be labeled as such 15 years ago or something like that.


Motor oil has moved in leaps and bounds in the past 10 years. I have an old advertising pencil on my desk: "Kendall the 2000 mile oil."


That marketing line is from 1928.

 

[Arctic388]

I have a 4.0 Mountaineer that has 247K miles on it and i bought it with 32K and switched to Syn at 100K and have run it hard every day. the only thing i ever had to do was change plugs a couple times and thermostat once. the thing rattles like crazy from all the worn out tensioners but it still runs great and strong.

I ran AMSOIL since 100K and around 200K switched to PU due to cost and am now using PU in everything i got. I would say use PU or PP in the replacement engine and it will outlast the rest of the vehicle.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Gabe
During the Pennzoil FB Q&A, somebody asked if PU contained PAO and GTL. Pennzoil answered 'yes' to both questions. That is all that was disclosed; that is all we know.

And that's fine. There's no such thing as an oil with 100% PAO or ester base stock in the first place. That's not what those who are being picky about the definition are asking for.

Originally Posted By: Gabe
As long as the molecules are uniform, why do you care where the hydrocarbons come from?? For some reason, people are stuck in the outdated notion that only natural gas and animal fats are able to be refined.

Personally, I don't care. I wish the synthetic definition were being followed properly, but it isn't, and I'm looking for performance, not marketing terms - that's all "synthetic" is these days. Look at Germany. They have strict labelling laws. So, the oil companies simply invent words.

Oil has advanced, but oil companies have always been glad to charge synthetic prices for something that actually costs them substantially less to produce. XOM is darn near the only one of the majors I give a pass grade on this issue. Mobil 1 has always been expensive up here, but at least the price hasn't even moved 10% in the last twenty years.

I'm not impressed with how Castrol handled the issue from the start, and I avoid their synthetics to this day unless it's an offering only they have, and I'm definitely not buying their Ti stuff for $14 a litre. Ironically, I can get some actual PAO oils (non ILSAC of course) for less than half the price, both from a major and from a boutique player.

 

[aquariuscsm]

There's a presentation from ExxonMobil about their move from pao to Visom (grp III). They go on to say they plan to keep the switch in basestocks a secret from consumers,knowingly deceiving them.

I found it on Google by searching "Mobil 1 Visom".

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
They go on to say they plan to keep the switch in basestocks a secret from consumers,knowingly deceiving them.

That's assuming the average consumer cares, much less understands the issue. Now, if they said they were trying to keep base stocks a secret from BITOGers and knowingly deceiving us, I'd believe that.