Dumb Oil Change Questions???

[JStep]

Morning all! Could not sleep last night and for some reason I was pondering a few things about my planned oil change today. So here it goes.

1) Is it better to change the oil after the engine as sat overnight so most of the oil can settle in the drain pan along with the "junk" you want out? Or is it better to let the motor idle for a few mins to circulate things?

2) Should you fill the new filter with fresh oil before installation? Or just replace empty?

3) Is it better to take an oil sample when oil first starts to drain? Middle? Toward the end? Any difference?

4) Any other tricks or recommendations to get the most out of your OC?

I am attempting to absorb as much as I can from the experience and knowledge base here. I know I am way over thinking this. But this happens when you can't sleep.

By the way, engine is a 2004.5 Dodge Cummins. If it makes a difference.

Anyway, as always thanks for the input!

 

[JustinH]

I change oil when the engine is not super hot. I let it idle for a couple minutes then shut it off and drain.

That is just personal preference, I do not like draining stone cold oil, but do not want to get burned either.

I do not fill spin on filters with oil before installation. I lube the gasket with oil before spinning it on, and make sure the old gasket is removed from the engine, so you don't end up with a double gasket condition.

I don't take oil samples anymore, so someone can comment on that.

 

[Ethan1]

 

[beanoil]

Warm to operating temp.Let it drain thoroughly.
Fill filter if possible. I think yours is vertical,but if horizontal mount, get as much in as possible without spilling when screwing it on.
Sample after the initial flow, somewhere in middle.
Repeat at a reasonable interval based on your UOA.

2 replies, 2 different answers. FWIW, as long as the old stuff is out, and new stuff is in, the procedure works either way. This is just what I've done with success.

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: JStep
Morning all! Could not sleep last night and for some reason I was pondering a few things about my planned oil change today. So here it goes.

1) Is it better to change the oil after the engine as sat overnight so most of the oil can settle in the drain pan along with the "junk" you want out? Or is it better to let the motor idle for a few mins to circulate things?

2) Should you fill the new filter with fresh oil before installation? Or just replace empty?

3) Is it better to take an oil sample when oil first starts to drain? Middle? Toward the end? Any difference?

4) Any other tricks or recommendations to get the most out of your OC?

I am attempting to absorb as much as I can from the experience and knowledge base here. I know I am way over thinking this. But this happens when you can't sleep.

By the way, engine is a 2004.5 Dodge Cummins. If it makes a difference.

Anyway, as always thanks for the input!


1 - I like to drain warm/hot oil as it comes out faster, but I don't like getting burned so I get it warm and let it drain for as long as possible/practical.

2 - Always prefill and lube the gasket

3 - Ask your analysis provider what they suggest

4 - Address any leaks or consumption issues, get it properly hot once a week or more, and if you dare (!!) think about how much contamination enters the oil through PCV & EGR and ways to address that contamination.

 

[UNC151]

Originally Posted By: JStep
1) Is it better to change the oil after the engine as sat overnight so most of the oil can settle in the drain pan along with the "junk" you want out? Or is it better to let the motor idle for a few mins to circulate things?

2) Should you fill the new filter with fresh oil before installation? Or just replace empty?

3) Is it better to take an oil sample when oil first starts to drain? Middle? Toward the end? Any difference?

4) Any other tricks or recommendations to get the most out of your OC?
1) Starting the engine for just a few minutes can lead to false fuel dilution readings (especially on a gasoline engine--but I know yours is a diesel). I would change it after a drive (allowing it to cool for a short while) as opposed to barely warming it and changing it. Alternately, you could change it cold--I have done it all three ways and I only saw an issue on "just warming" it with regards to fuel readings in the UOA.

2) Many opinions on this one. For a filter the size of the one going on a diesel, I would pre-fill it. The filter on my Powerstroke holds more than 1 quart of oil. IMHO, that is too much to have to fill on initial start up after an OC. Would there be a problem starting it empty? Probably not, just peace of mind for me.

3) I have not noticed any difference in the UOA readings, but for the sake of consistency, I always catch the sample somewhere in the middle. I use GoldPlug magnetic drain plugs and it can be a challenge to get the plug away from the metal pan in time to catch the first of the oil so I do it in the middle.

4) The only issue that I have with the PSD is that I have to hold the oil drain pan close to the engine pan and "walk it down to the ground" to prevent spilling the oil. My gasoline engines have a steady stream of oil, but the PSD seems like it is under pressure and can "overshoot" the pan making a huge mess. Make sure the pan you use has more than enough capacity to hold all of the oil. Use rubber gloves to prevent having to scrub extra hard to remove the soot laden oil from your hands. Finally, if you are catching a sample, be sure to have it under the truck with you so you are not scrambling to reach it once the flow starts.

 

[Rolla07]

Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: JStep
Morning all! Could not sleep last night and for some reason I was pondering a few things about my planned oil change today. So here it goes.

1) Is it better to change the oil after the engine as sat overnight so most of the oil can settle in the drain pan along with the "junk" you want out? Or is it better to let the motor idle for a few mins to circulate things?

2) Should you fill the new filter with fresh oil before installation? Or just replace empty?

3) Is it better to take an oil sample when oil first starts to drain? Middle? Toward the end? Any difference?

4) Any other tricks or recommendations to get the most out of your OC?

I am attempting to absorb as much as I can from the experience and knowledge base here. I know I am way over thinking this. But this happens when you can't sleep.

By the way, engine is a 2004.5 Dodge Cummins. If it makes a difference.

Anyway, as always thanks for the input!


1 - I like to drain warm/hot oil as it comes out faster, but I don't like getting burned so I get it warm and let it drain for as long as possible/practical.

2 - Always prefill and lube the gasket

3 - *Middle*

4 - Address any leaks or consumption issues, get it properly hot once a week or more, and if you dare (!!) think about how much contamination enters the oil through PCV & EGR and ways to address that contamination.


+1

#3 i put middle

 

[claluja]

Blackstone says to sample in middle of flow.

 

[Kuato]

Not dumb, and you are NOT the first one here to lie awake thinking about oil !

Originally Posted By: JStep
Morning all! Could not sleep last night and for some reason I was pondering a few things about my planned oil change today. So here it goes.

1) Is it better to change the oil after the engine as sat overnight so most of the oil can settle in the drain pan along with the "junk" you want out? Or is it better to let the motor idle for a few mins to circulate things?


Either sat all night or fully warmed.


Originally Posted By: JStep

2) Should you fill the new filter with fresh oil before installation? Or just replace empty?


IMO fill it if you can, as long as the installation angle of the filter allows it. It certainly won't hurt anything.



Originally Posted By: JStep

3) Is it better to take an oil sample when oil first starts to drain? Middle? Toward the end? Any difference?


Middle sampling gives the best overall look at the oil; early or late might see some sort of contamination.

 

[oldmaninsc]

This has been asked and answered several times over the years here. People do it both ways and the end result is the same.

So do whatever makes you sleep better at night!

FWIW (not much) I tend to do most of my oil changes after the engine has sat overnight and I prefill filters when possible. Even in the cars that have the filter perpendicular to the engine, I usually fill the filter about half way. In the old days I used to pull the coil wire and crank the engine over without spark until oil pressure built up. I suppose on newer engines you could probably do the same thing, just not as easy.

 

[JStep]

Thanks for all the input. Been doing OC's for years and have no idea why I thought of all this stuff. I am learning so much from those on this site that sometimes I tend to overthink things. Sometimes the little things do matter. Thanks again!

 

[Nitronoise]

1) I run it up to temp, then get it up in the air, ramp, or how ever you get under the vehicle and let it sit for 1/2 hour to let the oil drain down to the oil pan
2) if the angle allows I try to pre fill the oil filter my fleet of vehicles are all horozontal mount filters
3) I pull the sample from the middle of the drain for consistancy sake
4) trick s are up to your vehicle , I always check for the old gasket on the filter and I use new crush washer on the drain plugs and I always always check for leaks , and lastly look around under your vehicle for any thing else that needs attention while you have the opportunity , all of my cars are Front wheel drive so I like to look at CV boots and front end components when under the vehicle

just my 2 cents worth

 

[philipp10]

In my opinion....just change it. All else is splitting hairs...

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
In my opinion....just change it. All else is splitting hairs...


Exactly. None of the issues you brought up, while interesting to discuss, will have any effect on your engine.

I change my oil warm to hot. Changed it a few times cold but felt like I was somehow cheating. Never fill the oil filter with oil. Always spread some oil on the new filter gasket.

 

[6starprez]

1) I do oil changes hot and cold on my Subaru since I change the oil filter every other OCI and the threads point down. Cold just takes a little longer.

When I'm keeping the oil filter on, I change the oil in the morning or after several hours of sitting.

When I'm changing the oil filter, I do it with the oil hot.

2) I prefill my filter to soak the media.

3) I don't do used oil analysis

4) I use an oil extractor (Hydro-Turf). It does very well, especially with fast flowing hot oil.

 

[TiredTrucker]

I have gotten somewhat lazy and tired in my older age. I have 10 gallons of oil stashed in the side box on my semi truck, but I get the oil changed at a Mack Dealership lube shop near me. I come in straight off the road after running most of the day, have them drop the oil and change filters. I put a Fumoto drain valve on the pan at the first oil change, so it makes it easier for them, since the engine is pretty warm after running down the freeway pulling a load. I have them let a couple of gallons drain out and then catch a sample. I watch these guys do what they do, and they like pre-filling oil filters before installation.

 

[Donald]

If the oil is changed when its cold its likely the engine will fall out when filled up and warmed up.

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: Donald
If the oil is changed when its cold its likely the engine will fall out when filled up and warmed up.


That is highly unlikely.

 

[redbone3]

I use an oil extractor, so it has to be warm.

 

[DoubleWasp]

So long as the oil is changed, the engine will live a long happy life, but here's a few pointers to help maximize your results:

Originally Posted By: JStep
Morning all! Could not sleep last night and for some reason I was pondering a few things about my planned oil change today. So here it goes.

1) Is it better to change the oil after the engine as sat overnight so most of the oil can settle in the drain pan along with the "junk" you want out? Or is it better to let the motor idle for a few mins to circulate things?


Best thing is to do the oil change after having driven, parked, and sat for at least 15 minutes. Cummins says that's what it takes for the oil to drain back to the pan. This way, you are not fuel-loading the oil, you can let it cool down as much as is comfortable, and everything is still in suspension and has not settled in parts of the engine or sump.

You want the contaminants in suspension so they are accurately counted in your UOA, and also so as much as possible leaves the engine.

Quote:
2) Should you fill the new filter with fresh oil before installation? Or just replace empty?


I always do. It's a big filter on our engines. I'd rather it not wait longer for oil pressure to come up.

Quote:
3) Is it better to take an oil sample when oil first starts to drain? Middle? Toward the end? Any difference?


Middle is most accurate.

Quote:
4) Any other tricks or recommendations to get the most out of your OC?

I am attempting to absorb as much as I can from the experience and knowledge base here. I know I am way over thinking this. But this happens when you can't sleep.

By the way, engine is a 2004.5 Dodge Cummins. If it makes a difference.

Anyway, as always thanks for the input!


Oh, it makes a difference. Once that drain plug comes out, it's going to release a 3 gallon jet stream of oil. Use a deep pan of at least 4 gallons capacity. This will give you a margin of error in case it's overfilled, and will allow you some freeboard above the level of the oil so that the oil won't slosh out while trying to move it around. Don't use a "closed" top pan. The oil jet will ricochet off of one of these and waterfall all over the ground.