Duesenberg...

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Originally Posted By: hattaresguy

I'm still in shock someone would compare it to a Honda.



Im not really comparing it to a Honda. Im not one for the uppity "if you don't like/get/appreciate _____ then you obviously aren't ______" that some of the "connoisseurs" of some of this kind of stuff spit out, so I was making a point based upon specifications and capabilities.

All I was getting at was that an accord would probably shift smoother than the unsynchronized gearbox present in there, do 0-60 faster than the eight seconds of the SSJ models, have a higher top speed, stop faster, be safer, and perhaps be quieter and smoother on the road. That's the marvel of modern technology.

That's not saying that one is equal to the other, or even in any sort of the same class. One is made by robots, the other by hand. There is obviously much to the dusenberg even far beyond craftsmanship that makes it a wonderful machine.

But its just like the muscle car guys who say that their XYZ ci V8 was so powerful and wonderful, and then you look at the numbers and they just dont perform like modern cars.

There is nothing wrong with mechanical and technical progress making things better in every way in far "lesser" vehicles. That's engineering and progress and human spirit and everything good that these vehicles, top in their day, stood for.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


The boat I speak of is a 1931 Chris-Craft cadet BTW, 22' triple-cockpit. It was the darling of my grandfather and still chases through my dreams to this day. It was one of the markers that defined my childhood, my teenage years and the meaning of that retrospective mess that we look back on and call our youth. The desire to have that again shapes the here, now and the future. I yearn frequently to be able to relive my times in that boat and have made that one of my life goals for myself and children to enjoy as well.

It is rare that a singular thing, not a person, but a thing, can have such an impact on one's life that it becomes a part of that fabric. And maybe it isn't the thing at all, but what it represents and in turn, what that representation expresses to us that is important and gives life to it.


"Is it so nice as all that?" asked the mole, shyly...

"Nice? It's the only thing," said the Water Rat Solemnly, as he leaned forward for his stroke. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."

"Simply messing...about in boats -- or with boats... In or out of 'em it doesn't matter. Nothing seems to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

"Look here! If you've really nothing else on hand this morning, supposing we drop down the river together and have a long day of it.?"
 
The company I work for recently restored the first Duesenberg passenger car built.

This one certainly isn't as elegant as many of the later Duesenbergs, but it was basically the Bugatti Veyron of it's day. The Duesenberg brothers had built race cars before it.


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Oh, and notice I drive a Honda. The Duesenberg would be long disintegrated before the Honda's engine expired if used in real world conditions. Then again, it will never be used in real world conditions.
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Well I guess it took them 90 years to best the Duesenberg I8.



So youre saying there was zero technical progress from the days of that car to today? Come on, youre just being silly.

Technical progress exists, it benefits people even if it is cold and character-less. Its a good thing too. This concept isnt very hard to understand - new things come along and can do everything better. Whether it oozes the same "class", invokes the same feelings or has the same appeal is a DIFFERENT story.

That's all Im saying. Things have really gotten better in the automotive space since then, and these time capsules, for as great as they were and as impressive as they are, have been surpassed. Maybe not in all ways, but from a technical/mechanical standpoint for operating an automobile on the roads of the USA, they have. That's all. Simple concept.
 
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
...This one certainly isn't as elegant as many of the later Duesenbergs, but it was basically the Bugatti Veyron of it's day. The Duesenberg brothers had built race cars before it. ...


I actually like that one better...

Question: Why on earth would someone "upgrade the coachwork in the style of a Walker LaGrande Torpedo Phaeton" a car that "is perhaps the most filmed of any Duesenberg, having appeared in at least 14 Hollywood productions"...?

Maybe I just don't get it or the original coachwork was so far gone it was un savable but that just seems a bit wrong to me...
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Technical progress exists, it benefits people even if it is cold and character-less. Its a good thing too. This concept isnt very hard to understand - new things come along and can do everything better. Whether it oozes the same "class", invokes the same feelings or has the same appeal is a DIFFERENT story.

That's all Im saying. Things have really gotten better in the automotive space since then, and these time capsules, for as great as they were and as impressive as they are, have been surpassed. Maybe not in all ways, but from a technical/mechanical standpoint for operating an automobile on the roads of the USA, they have. That's all. Simple concept.


Agreed
cheers3.gif


Wrenching on an old flathead Chris-Craft i6 in our one boat, which weighed 1000lbs and made something like 100HP (SAE gross) with its updraft carb, solid plug wires, points, no oil filter....etc. Completely different from even wrenching on the retrofit Ford engine in the '31, which was a solid 25+ years newer than the engine it replaced. And was a far better engine.

You can hop in a new boat, run the blower, then fire up its injected mill and away you go. It will be faster, get better mileage, be FAR lower maintenance.....etc.

The personality and character are completely separate from the mechanical details that set new apart from old even if it is some of that simplicity in the mechanics that contribute to what that perceived personality/character is IMHO.
 
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Oh, and notice I drive a Honda. The Duesenberg would be long disintegrated before the Honda's engine expired if used in real world conditions. Then again, it will never be used in real world conditions.

I don't think that's quite true. The Duesenberg would take far more maintenance and care, but its made to be rebuilt and I suspect it probably has better rust resistance, built with cast iron, brass, 10 coats of paint on everything else, and no sheet metal structural parts. Its probably half way to a steam locomotive, built for many 1000's of hours of use over decades given proper upkeep.
Maybe just using modern oils and grease might have the engine even outlasting the honda's engine between rebuilds?
Modern cars are marvels of performance and low maintenace, but they are designed to be cheap to make and disposable.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Well I guess it took them 90 years to best the Duesenberg I8.



So youre saying there was zero technical progress from the days of that car to today? Come on, youre just being silly.

Technical progress exists, it benefits people even if it is cold and character-less. Its a good thing too. This concept isnt very hard to understand - new things come along and can do everything better. Whether it oozes the same "class", invokes the same feelings or has the same appeal is a DIFFERENT story.

That's all Im saying. Things have really gotten better in the automotive space since then, and these time capsules, for as great as they were and as impressive as they are, have been surpassed. Maybe not in all ways, but from a technical/mechanical standpoint for operating an automobile on the roads of the USA, they have. That's all. Simple concept.


I totally agree I was just hoping to have a thread about good cars and not Honda's for 5 minutes here.
 
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Oh, and notice I drive a Honda. The Duesenberg would be long disintegrated before the Honda's engine expired if used in real world conditions. Then again, it will never be used in real world conditions.


Considering many of them were daily drivers for the better part of the 20th century...
 
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I think comparing Hondas and Duesenbergs is comparing apples and oranges.

Compared to *anything* in it's day, it was most reliable. Lubrication was pretty poor back then and cars required oil changes about every 300 miles (I saw an ad in an old popular science magazine that said this). The Duezy has an automatic greasing system that pumps grease out to all the joints from a central reservoir. That had to have saved a lot on maintenance. The engine is overhead cam driven through bevel gears.
 
A more fair comparison would be the Duesenberg to say a Cadillac, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Mercedes Benz of the day. To compare anything 80 years later isn't in the same ballpark. No matter what the cost... any 80 year old vehicle compared to almost any 21st century car would seem to be crude to todays standards.
 
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