Drop the Tax on Bicycles
- Thread starter cjcride
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Originally Posted By: eljefino
Quote:
The construction and care of the public roads, whether in Rome, in Italy, or in the provinces, was, at all periods of Roman history, considered to be a function of the greatest weight and importance. This is clearly shown by the fact that the censors, in some respects the most venerable of Roman magistrates, had the earliest paramount authority to construct and repair all roads and streets.
Quote:
The laws twelve Tables, dated to approximately 450 BC, specified that a road shall be 8 ft (2.45 m) wide where straight and 16 ft (4.90 m) where curved.[10] Actual practices varied from this standard. The Tables command Romans to build roads and give wayfarers the right to pass over private land where the road is in disrepair. Building roads that would not need frequent repair therefore became an ideological objective, as well as building them as straight as possible in order to build the narrowest roads possible, and thus save on material.
Roman law defined the right to use a road as a servitus, or claim. The ius eundi ("right of going") established a claim to use an iter, or footpath, across private land; the ius agendi ("right of driving"), an actus, or carriage track. A via combined both types of servitutes, provided it was of the proper width, which was determined by an arbiter. The default width was the latitudo legitima of 8 ft (2.4 m).
Roman law and tradition forbade the use of vehicles in urban areas, except in certain cases. Married women and government officials on business could ride. The Lex Iulia Municipalis restricted commercial carts to night-time access to the city within the walls and within a mile outside the walls.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_roads
As to my previous comment about motor vehicles being a privilege, having to yield to an equestrian's signal pretty much shows who's higher-up, legally.
Who said anything about farmers not using the roads? This is about bicycles using the roads and special paths just for them and not paying for it.
I would like to see the bicycles the Romans were riding.
Quote:
The construction and care of the public roads, whether in Rome, in Italy, or in the provinces, was, at all periods of Roman history, considered to be a function of the greatest weight and importance. This is clearly shown by the fact that the censors, in some respects the most venerable of Roman magistrates, had the earliest paramount authority to construct and repair all roads and streets.
Quote:
The laws twelve Tables, dated to approximately 450 BC, specified that a road shall be 8 ft (2.45 m) wide where straight and 16 ft (4.90 m) where curved.[10] Actual practices varied from this standard. The Tables command Romans to build roads and give wayfarers the right to pass over private land where the road is in disrepair. Building roads that would not need frequent repair therefore became an ideological objective, as well as building them as straight as possible in order to build the narrowest roads possible, and thus save on material.
Roman law defined the right to use a road as a servitus, or claim. The ius eundi ("right of going") established a claim to use an iter, or footpath, across private land; the ius agendi ("right of driving"), an actus, or carriage track. A via combined both types of servitutes, provided it was of the proper width, which was determined by an arbiter. The default width was the latitudo legitima of 8 ft (2.4 m).
Roman law and tradition forbade the use of vehicles in urban areas, except in certain cases. Married women and government officials on business could ride. The Lex Iulia Municipalis restricted commercial carts to night-time access to the city within the walls and within a mile outside the walls.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_roads
As to my previous comment about motor vehicles being a privilege, having to yield to an equestrian's signal pretty much shows who's higher-up, legally.
Who said anything about farmers not using the roads? This is about bicycles using the roads and special paths just for them and not paying for it.
I would like to see the bicycles the Romans were riding.
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
While I primarily commute via bike I still drive and fill-up our 3 cars and least a few times a month. The mileages are fairly equal. While maybe I should pay more for the bike miles I want these roads smooth as SILK! You think the roads are rough in your car feel it on a bike. More revenue won't help.. need to fix the leak where all our tax dollars should be going towards the roads!
It's happening here in California with the rise of the hybrid/electric car, meaning less gas tax. A tax based on what you drive and how often you drive is a complicated but necessary thing. And it raises privacy concerns.
I'm a cyclist as well, I want to see more protected bike ROW. And better roads for everyone. As for the congestion argument, if you live in the city there really isn't a need for a car - even if you took Uber or Lyft every day to commute, you'd still come out compared to owning, maintaining and insuring a car that isn't a beater that can be insured liablity-only and with readily available parts.
It's happening here in California with the rise of the hybrid/electric car, meaning less gas tax. A tax based on what you drive and how often you drive is a complicated but necessary thing. And it raises privacy concerns.
I'm a cyclist as well, I want to see more protected bike ROW. And better roads for everyone. As for the congestion argument, if you live in the city there really isn't a need for a car - even if you took Uber or Lyft every day to commute, you'd still come out compared to owning, maintaining and insuring a car that isn't a beater that can be insured liablity-only and with readily available parts.
Quoted for truthery.
Been trying to say this for years. Doesn't matter which party, if you are looking for DC to solve most problems, then you know the source of most problems.
Originally Posted By: GMZ
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Perhaps if the government cut spending instead of looking for new ways to tax people.
This is often lost in translation, or hidden under the animosity created between two different groups.
White vs black
Rich vs poor
bikes vs cars
Instead of bickering with each other we should shift our gaze to the real problem, which is the govt.
Been trying to say this for years. Doesn't matter which party, if you are looking for DC to solve most problems, then you know the source of most problems.
Originally Posted By: GMZ
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Perhaps if the government cut spending instead of looking for new ways to tax people.
This is often lost in translation, or hidden under the animosity created between two different groups.
White vs black
Rich vs poor
bikes vs cars
Instead of bickering with each other we should shift our gaze to the real problem, which is the govt.
If a taxing entity were to drop the tax on bikes such as sales tax, I do not think this is enough incentive for a non biker to go out, get a bike and help "save the world" per se. Paying tax is not a discouragement for those that ride. The lawmakers know this. I commute over 6000 miles a year and own 6 bikes. I ride an additional 1200 miles a year racing and training. Even if I pay more tax for my bikes, I still save tons in fuel. My F-150 gets filled up about once every two and a half months. I probably spend more money in fuel boating and cutting grass. I just don't think you can legislate someone into changing their lives.
On a side note, the two areas people come to on BITOG to stir the pot and express hate are the bicycles section and firearms section. If you don't like bicycles or firearms, save the hate for something else. Don't try to change the minds of an enthusiast or jack a perfectly good conversation among like minds. Show a touch of class.
On a side note, the two areas people come to on BITOG to stir the pot and express hate are the bicycles section and firearms section. If you don't like bicycles or firearms, save the hate for something else. Don't try to change the minds of an enthusiast or jack a perfectly good conversation among like minds. Show a touch of class.
Originally Posted By: cjcride
Pop, I walk, cycle and drive. Everything I do is taxed.
You imply cyclists don't pay tax.
You also don't have to worry about healthcare costs. Stop complaining about trivial sales tax.
Pop, I walk, cycle and drive. Everything I do is taxed.
You imply cyclists don't pay tax.
You also don't have to worry about healthcare costs. Stop complaining about trivial sales tax.
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Perhaps if the government cut spending instead of looking for new ways to tax people.
You cannot cut your way to prosperity. As it is, the US has been cutting back for 35-40 years, except at the pentagon of course. There's nothing left to cut, except our own wrists.
Perhaps if the government cut spending instead of looking for new ways to tax people.
You cannot cut your way to prosperity. As it is, the US has been cutting back for 35-40 years, except at the pentagon of course. There's nothing left to cut, except our own wrists.
(I was trying to edit my last post but I took too long typing this out and can't edit it anymore. Oh well.)
Greed is this nation's continual undoing.
You cannot cut your way to prosperity. As it is, the US has been cutting back for 35-40 years, except at the pentagon of course. There's nothing left to cut, except our own neck. Most Republicans and a few right wing/middle of the road Democrats have been holding the knife for decades and will continue to do so, pressing it against the jugular of the nation, waiting for the opportune moment. Although they have slowly sliced away at the flesh and are still trying to get to the veins. Namely, Social Security.
Remember the whole push to "put Social Security in the stock market" thing of the early to mid 2000s that was thankfully killed? Then the economy crashed. To all right wingers on Social Security reading this; from all us Democrats.... YOU'RE WELCOME.
Big money in politics has hired economic assassins (in the house and senate) by the obscenely wealthy, who stand to gain no matter what, to sabotage the country (the world, really) for their own means. If the US collapses and falls into anarchy, they can fly to the other side of the globe and it won't matter a bit to them. They win no matter what when they get to keep 80% of the entire nation's wealth.
The rich have been doing this economically for 4 decades and they got bailed out and STILL got millions of dollars salary for basically running their companies into the ground, requiring gov intervention to keep workers from being jobless by the companies going totally bankrupt and ruining people's lives.
No, it's NOT a recent phenomenon. For those who long forgot or never knew, there was a Chrysler bailout in 1979: http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/chrysler-bailout.asp Just like the 2009 auto industry bailouts (including Chrysler, AGAIN!!!), it was done NOT for the company's benefit, but for the nation's. It kept hundreds of thousands of jobs from not only Chrysler but also supply chains and part manufacturers. But it also had to do with Chrysler working on new tanks that the Pentaton wanted.
But anyway, people are effing stupid and will continue to worship the rich, brainwashed by the lie that they were somehow be rich on their poverty level income, working at Walmart, blaming the government (rightfully so, but NOT for the reasons that cite!) for their plight.
I know someone who thinks that way... right-wing leaning of course. That's the typical profile for that line of thinking. His parents are middle class income and bought him a car and a mobile home they put on their own land. So yeah, he's not living on his own.. he's being supported by his parents, dilusional in his thinking that he's supporting himself.
You know, like people who drive on Government funded roads in relativity safe cars (made so by Gov oversight), who were educated in a public school and sends their kids there too, they were perhaps was in the armed forces... and yet they complain about how the Government does nothing for them and want to cut back on things that benefit others, simply because they themselves aren't benefiting from it right at this very moment.
Take away their stable lives and what's the first thing they do? They go crying to big bother for help, same as the big wall street banks and the auto industry did. That's the right wing lifestyle, in a nutshell. Belly ache about others getting something you don't have, but when you DO need it, you expect it.
That's what's nice about the Government. It doesn't discriminate on benefits owed if they are due. If you match the criteria, you get your benefits regardless of how much you may have cursed the Government for giving the same benefits to others in the past, when you thought it was unfair.
Try doing that to your boss at work and see how well that works out for you. Insult him/her, curse them for giving your coworker more hours when they need to pay for their kid's doctor bills, how it's your bosses fault and how others are taking advantage of the system by getting more hours than you (that's jealously, in case you didn't notice). Then when you you need more hours, try asking them (assuming you haven't already been fired, anyway) and see what they say. Odds are they will laugh in your face.
Well, the Government doesn't work that way. Curse [insert your most hated thing from the Gov] when you don't need it, but when you need it, you'll still get it... assuming you haven't voted in wingnuts who killed the program or cut it back so bad, what you do get still isn't enough, anyway.
Greed is this nation's continual undoing.
You cannot cut your way to prosperity. As it is, the US has been cutting back for 35-40 years, except at the pentagon of course. There's nothing left to cut, except our own neck. Most Republicans and a few right wing/middle of the road Democrats have been holding the knife for decades and will continue to do so, pressing it against the jugular of the nation, waiting for the opportune moment. Although they have slowly sliced away at the flesh and are still trying to get to the veins. Namely, Social Security.
Remember the whole push to "put Social Security in the stock market" thing of the early to mid 2000s that was thankfully killed? Then the economy crashed. To all right wingers on Social Security reading this; from all us Democrats.... YOU'RE WELCOME.
Big money in politics has hired economic assassins (in the house and senate) by the obscenely wealthy, who stand to gain no matter what, to sabotage the country (the world, really) for their own means. If the US collapses and falls into anarchy, they can fly to the other side of the globe and it won't matter a bit to them. They win no matter what when they get to keep 80% of the entire nation's wealth.
The rich have been doing this economically for 4 decades and they got bailed out and STILL got millions of dollars salary for basically running their companies into the ground, requiring gov intervention to keep workers from being jobless by the companies going totally bankrupt and ruining people's lives.
No, it's NOT a recent phenomenon. For those who long forgot or never knew, there was a Chrysler bailout in 1979: http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/chrysler-bailout.asp Just like the 2009 auto industry bailouts (including Chrysler, AGAIN!!!), it was done NOT for the company's benefit, but for the nation's. It kept hundreds of thousands of jobs from not only Chrysler but also supply chains and part manufacturers. But it also had to do with Chrysler working on new tanks that the Pentaton wanted.
But anyway, people are effing stupid and will continue to worship the rich, brainwashed by the lie that they were somehow be rich on their poverty level income, working at Walmart, blaming the government (rightfully so, but NOT for the reasons that cite!) for their plight.
I know someone who thinks that way... right-wing leaning of course. That's the typical profile for that line of thinking. His parents are middle class income and bought him a car and a mobile home they put on their own land. So yeah, he's not living on his own.. he's being supported by his parents, dilusional in his thinking that he's supporting himself.
You know, like people who drive on Government funded roads in relativity safe cars (made so by Gov oversight), who were educated in a public school and sends their kids there too, they were perhaps was in the armed forces... and yet they complain about how the Government does nothing for them and want to cut back on things that benefit others, simply because they themselves aren't benefiting from it right at this very moment.
Take away their stable lives and what's the first thing they do? They go crying to big bother for help, same as the big wall street banks and the auto industry did. That's the right wing lifestyle, in a nutshell. Belly ache about others getting something you don't have, but when you DO need it, you expect it.
That's what's nice about the Government. It doesn't discriminate on benefits owed if they are due. If you match the criteria, you get your benefits regardless of how much you may have cursed the Government for giving the same benefits to others in the past, when you thought it was unfair.
Try doing that to your boss at work and see how well that works out for you. Insult him/her, curse them for giving your coworker more hours when they need to pay for their kid's doctor bills, how it's your bosses fault and how others are taking advantage of the system by getting more hours than you (that's jealously, in case you didn't notice). Then when you you need more hours, try asking them (assuming you haven't already been fired, anyway) and see what they say. Odds are they will laugh in your face.
Well, the Government doesn't work that way. Curse [insert your most hated thing from the Gov] when you don't need it, but when you need it, you'll still get it... assuming you haven't voted in wingnuts who killed the program or cut it back so bad, what you do get still isn't enough, anyway.
^^^^ Got a Sanders voter right there. ^^^^
Originally Posted By: andrewg
^^^^ Got a Sanders voter right there. ^^^^
Indeed.
^^^^ Got a Sanders voter right there. ^^^^
Indeed.
Originally Posted By: Cubey
Originally Posted By: andrewg
^^^^ Got a Sanders voter right there. ^^^^
Indeed.
It wasn't hard to make that assumption.
Originally Posted By: andrewg
^^^^ Got a Sanders voter right there. ^^^^
Indeed.
It wasn't hard to make that assumption.
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: Cubey
Originally Posted By: andrewg
^^^^ Got a Sanders voter right there. ^^^^
Indeed.
It wasn't hard to make that assumption.
I would hope not.
Originally Posted By: Cubey
Originally Posted By: andrewg
^^^^ Got a Sanders voter right there. ^^^^
Indeed.
It wasn't hard to make that assumption.
I would hope not.
Originally Posted By: andrewg
^^^^ Got a Sanders voter right there. ^^^^
Got one here too. This whole survival of the fittest and rugged individual philosophy is ridiculous and I can't imagine how anyone still believes this nonsense. Wait until our last unions are busted and see for yourself why our predecessors fought and died for our rights in the workplace.
^^^^ Got a Sanders voter right there. ^^^^
Got one here too. This whole survival of the fittest and rugged individual philosophy is ridiculous and I can't imagine how anyone still believes this nonsense. Wait until our last unions are busted and see for yourself why our predecessors fought and died for our rights in the workplace.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Originally Posted By: andrewg
^^^^ Got a Sanders voter right there. ^^^^
Got one here too. This whole survival of the fittest and rugged individual philosophy is ridiculous and I can't imagine how anyone still believes this nonsense. Wait until our last unions are busted and see for yourself why our predecessors fought and died for our rights in the workplace.
Then you have your candidate then, don't you? Of course, he hasn't a hair of a chance of getting the nomination. Then you'll be supporting somebody that is well known to be highly corrupt and an extreme liar. But hey...she supports the unions (and they have given her millions from union dues).
And by the way, MY predecessors didn't fight and die for the communist-tied labor movement. My predecessors were brave Americans that fought and dies so that we could have a free country were a person could have the individual choice to take the road they choose in life and not be made to follow the "collective". The history of this country is far more about rugged individualism than corrupt unions.
Originally Posted By: andrewg
^^^^ Got a Sanders voter right there. ^^^^
Got one here too. This whole survival of the fittest and rugged individual philosophy is ridiculous and I can't imagine how anyone still believes this nonsense. Wait until our last unions are busted and see for yourself why our predecessors fought and died for our rights in the workplace.
Then you have your candidate then, don't you? Of course, he hasn't a hair of a chance of getting the nomination. Then you'll be supporting somebody that is well known to be highly corrupt and an extreme liar. But hey...she supports the unions (and they have given her millions from union dues).
And by the way, MY predecessors didn't fight and die for the communist-tied labor movement. My predecessors were brave Americans that fought and dies so that we could have a free country were a person could have the individual choice to take the road they choose in life and not be made to follow the "collective". The history of this country is far more about rugged individualism than corrupt unions.
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We just got a bike lane in Chester, VA along route 10. It appears all they did was mark it off, as the road was already fairly wide. Didn't cost much tax money.
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Got one here too. This whole survival of the fittest and rugged individual philosophy is ridiculous and I can't imagine how anyone still believes this nonsense. Wait until our last unions are busted and see for yourself why our predecessors fought and died for our rights in the workplace.
I understand those of you who support and may be members of unions, I don't agree with it but I understand it. But how do you let that override your decision-making to the point you would vote for a socialist? Socialism (like Communism) is at its core anti-American, it is fundamentally incompatible with The American Way, no?
Got one here too. This whole survival of the fittest and rugged individual philosophy is ridiculous and I can't imagine how anyone still believes this nonsense. Wait until our last unions are busted and see for yourself why our predecessors fought and died for our rights in the workplace.
I understand those of you who support and may be members of unions, I don't agree with it but I understand it. But how do you let that override your decision-making to the point you would vote for a socialist? Socialism (like Communism) is at its core anti-American, it is fundamentally incompatible with The American Way, no?
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Got one here too. This whole survival of the fittest and rugged individual philosophy is ridiculous and I can't imagine how anyone still believes this nonsense. Wait until our last unions are busted and see for yourself why our predecessors fought and died for our rights in the workplace.
I understand those of you who support and may be members of unions, I don't agree with it but I understand it. But how do you let that override your decision-making to the point you would vote for a socialist? Socialism (like Communism) is at its core anti-American, it is fundamentally incompatible with The American Way, right?
Not really. We have roads, police, fire, military, schools, teachers in our society. Our public parks projects and bike trails/lanes are part of our "socialist" system too.
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Got one here too. This whole survival of the fittest and rugged individual philosophy is ridiculous and I can't imagine how anyone still believes this nonsense. Wait until our last unions are busted and see for yourself why our predecessors fought and died for our rights in the workplace.
I understand those of you who support and may be members of unions, I don't agree with it but I understand it. But how do you let that override your decision-making to the point you would vote for a socialist? Socialism (like Communism) is at its core anti-American, it is fundamentally incompatible with The American Way, right?
Not really. We have roads, police, fire, military, schools, teachers in our society. Our public parks projects and bike trails/lanes are part of our "socialist" system too.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I understand those of you who support and may be members of unions, I don't agree with it but I understand it.
No, I don't think you do understand it.
If by yourself you go to your boss and demand a raise due to rising costs of living despite their refusal to pay a fair wage based on the work you perform, you'll be flat out rejected. If you say "raise my pay or I will walk off the job" they'll say "Fine, it's not hard to replace one person. You're fired."
If you have a collective body of other workers, that is a large amount of the workers that keeps bringing your boss large profits at the lowest pay they feel they can get away with, you have a bigger chance of getting paid fairly since it brings the business to a grinding halt if 50 workers demand a raise and the boss refuses vs 1.
I honestly don't think you understand what has happened, which applies to most Americans. They're too busy working 2-3 jobs to look into the reasons, or just don't REALLY care about what is going on in this country, so long as they themselves have a reasonably comfortable life. The latter of the two tends to the happen the most the higher one's income is.
The rich are actually WORSE at dealing with money than the poor (generally speaking of course) because they have so much of it. You;'d be okay with tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost money in the stock market because you pull in MILLIONS of dollars a year. It's a drop in the bucket for you. It's pocket change almost.
If you live on $1,000 a month you have to be a lot more careful with how you spend your money than if you pull in $10,000 a month. It's the same reason you often hear how people will millions in the lottery and are broke after 10 years or less. Why? They were rich and didn't know how to handle money, despite being poor/middle class prior. They get amnesia about how to manage money properly due to the delusion about being rich solves all your problems and you never have to worry about being careful with money again.
Donald Trump is an EXCELLENT example, actually. He's more or less broke, at least compared to the wild claims he makes about how rich he is. He doesn't even own the buildings that bear his name and he's had to file bankruptcy several times. I'm not sure why anyone thinks he's a good choice to run the country, based on the SEVERAL bankruptcies alone. Do right wingers WANT him to totally bankrupct the US? Nah, they just don't care about the US. They care about more someone they look up to being in office than about what they will do to the nation. Talk about literal "big brother" worship.
I understand those of you who support and may be members of unions, I don't agree with it but I understand it.
No, I don't think you do understand it.
If by yourself you go to your boss and demand a raise due to rising costs of living despite their refusal to pay a fair wage based on the work you perform, you'll be flat out rejected. If you say "raise my pay or I will walk off the job" they'll say "Fine, it's not hard to replace one person. You're fired."
If you have a collective body of other workers, that is a large amount of the workers that keeps bringing your boss large profits at the lowest pay they feel they can get away with, you have a bigger chance of getting paid fairly since it brings the business to a grinding halt if 50 workers demand a raise and the boss refuses vs 1.
I honestly don't think you understand what has happened, which applies to most Americans. They're too busy working 2-3 jobs to look into the reasons, or just don't REALLY care about what is going on in this country, so long as they themselves have a reasonably comfortable life. The latter of the two tends to the happen the most the higher one's income is.
The rich are actually WORSE at dealing with money than the poor (generally speaking of course) because they have so much of it. You;'d be okay with tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost money in the stock market because you pull in MILLIONS of dollars a year. It's a drop in the bucket for you. It's pocket change almost.
If you live on $1,000 a month you have to be a lot more careful with how you spend your money than if you pull in $10,000 a month. It's the same reason you often hear how people will millions in the lottery and are broke after 10 years or less. Why? They were rich and didn't know how to handle money, despite being poor/middle class prior. They get amnesia about how to manage money properly due to the delusion about being rich solves all your problems and you never have to worry about being careful with money again.
Donald Trump is an EXCELLENT example, actually. He's more or less broke, at least compared to the wild claims he makes about how rich he is. He doesn't even own the buildings that bear his name and he's had to file bankruptcy several times. I'm not sure why anyone thinks he's a good choice to run the country, based on the SEVERAL bankruptcies alone. Do right wingers WANT him to totally bankrupct the US? Nah, they just don't care about the US. They care about more someone they look up to being in office than about what they will do to the nation. Talk about literal "big brother" worship.
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