Drivers not turning left with green light

[Sayjac]

As correctly noted in my previous post about 'claiming the intersection', in this state the response from the authority NCDOT regarding the practice...

“It is perfectly reasonable to enter the intersection on the yellow or flashing yellow as long as the driver doesn’t enter into the path of a vehicle that has the right of way,”

Further there’s no requirement to stop at an “appropriately marked stop line,” The specific NC laws allowing the practice are cited in the link.https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/dr-traffic-blog/article37735587.html. So where practicable, I will continue to 'claim the intersection' as it is perfectly legal under green and yellow.

As for right on red after stop, legal except where otherwise designated. As mentioned, can't force someone to turn right on red and if you happen to get behind someone that doesn't observe the practice, c'est la vie.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: ArrestMeRedZ
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Minnesota State law says you have to clear the intersection before the light turns red. Entering the intersection on a green, and then exiting when the light turns red, even on a left turn on green, is not legal. Under that idea, is OK to enter an intersection you know you will never make it across on the green, and sit there blocking cross traffic because "I entered on green". Its the drivers duty to not move forward until they know they can clear the intersection legally.
Most states have similar laws and entering on green knowing you may not complete the turn before the light turns red is not a get out of jail free card.
2015_PSD, you could not be more wrong. Every state I've driven in (quite a few) allows you to enter an intersection on green or yellow, and exit on red. The most common rule is that your car is past the near crosswalk, or intersection demarcation line before the light turns red.
Plenty of people who have received a red light camera ticket would argue your point--in downtown Houston, I know what would happen.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: Leo99
I used to work with someone that woldn't turn right on red. She didn't believe in it.


People like that are real treats at an intersection that basically requires one to turn on red...I can think of one I used to have to deal with years ago where the cross road would be backed up with cars on the green and the only time it would be clear to make a right would be on a red. Area with too many lights and poor or no coordination of same.

One the other hand, I was at an intersection N of Boston on Saturday that had two prominent no turn on red signs waiting for the green and some dorkmeister in a pickup was laying on his horn, screaming, and waving his arms because I wouldn't turn right on red. I kept pointing to the bigger sign and I think he finally got it and stopped his act...I hope he was at least embarrassed, I was hoping we'd end up at the same place so I could ask him if he had trouble reading.

The #1 source of problems on the road these days is cell phones IMHO, if somebody is doing something totally stupid behind the wheel I'd say there is a 90% chance they are texting, dialing, or talking with their head down. There is a big left on my usual way home at which I'd say 5-10 fewer cars than should get through will make it because the person at the head of the line is texting and doesn't notice the green, and there is usually at least one in the line behind them who creeps through because they are also busy on the phone.
It seems like being first in line at a light these days means that you have to get the phone at and get really engrossed in it because, hey, you're not going to miss the green by being a moron, right?

 

[billt460]

This is horrible in Arizona. In Chicago 3 times as many cars would get through on a left turn arrow as do here. It's like their reaction time is next week. Same when a light turns green around here. They sit and sit forever before moving. And it's not retired people or snowbirds that are causing this either. Plenty of young space cadets behind the wheel, who are all driving in La La Land.

The other thing they love to do here is block the right turn lane on a red light, when they are going to go straight. You come into these intersections that are 4 and 6 lanes wide, and you'll wind up with some nit wit who chooses the far right lane to stop in. Running blocker for anyone and everyone who would have liked to have been able to turn right on red.

Arizona has without question the absolute worst drivers I've ever encountered. I have lived here for almost 28 years, and I'm still not used to it. And if it rains forget it! They drive faster in Illinois on snow and ice, than they do here on wet pavement. Traffic all but comes to a stand still.

And Arizona has no law that tells drivers to, "Keep To Right Except To Pass". Or, "Trucks Busses Cars With Trailers Use Right Lane". So the result is you wind up with these people running 3 and 4 abreast, 10 to 15 MPH under the limit, running blocker for everyone behind them. So as a result you end up with a lot of unnecessary lane changing to get around people. This causes even more accidents.

Another thing you have to see to believe, are all the rubber and paint marks on the concrete retaining walls, that line the on and off ramps to the freeways around here. They bounce off of them like pin balls. It's unbelievable. It's almost as if they forget to turn the wheel when they come into a curve. If I were ever going to go into the body and fender business, it would be here. There would be no shortage of customers. It's unreal the amount of 1 and 2 year old cars I see driving around all banged up.

 

[goodtimes]

Here is the MN driver manual on left turns in intersections. Page 26. It specifically says to enter the intersection when making a left turn on a green light. Positioning the body at the curb line is something I hadn't heard.


"When waiting to make a left turn at a green traffic light with oncoming traffic, position the car into the intersection where your body appears even with the curb line. The only opportunity to make a left turn may occur when the green light changes to yellow."

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/dvs/forms-documents/Documents/Minnesota_Drivers_Manual.pdf

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
In many cities/states I have driven in, it is Illegal to move to the center of the intersection and stop. The reason being is that you can become trapped if police or other official vehicle needs to get through the intersection quickly.


I was going to post this - in Ohio, as I understand it, you're not supposed to go out into the intersection and wait. You're to stay behind the 'stop' line until it's clear to turn.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

I googled Ohio traffic law and found it matched most other states - you don't run a red light unless you enter the intersection after the light is red, not yellow. However, the question posted on a Ohio law forum below indicated the law doesn't guarantee the ticketing officer won't make a mistake:

Q. "I received a ticket for 'running a red light' while turning left. However, the light did not turn red until I passed under it and was yellow as I turned. What is the Ohio law for going through a yellow light and should I fight my ticket?"

A. "Re: turning left on yellow light

Under Ohio law, you are legally permitted to enter the intersection on a yellow caution light. Once you have entered the intersection, you may complete the left turn even if the light turns red while you are waiting for on-coming traffic to clear. The issue is whether you had gained control of the intersection while the light was still yellow.
You can certainly fight the citation. One factor you may wish to consider is whether it is economical to do so. Even if you hired an attorney on a flat fee basis (as opposed to an hourly rate) you are likely to invest several hundred (if not a thousand or more) in attorney fees. No attorney can guarantee that you will win the case. Therefore, you might be spending several hundred to over a thousand dollars and still end up guilty of the ticket.
That might make sense if you drive for a living, have lots of points on your license now, or for some other reason simply cannot afford to be convicted of this offense.
I hope this helps you make a decision. If you would like to call me to discuss it further, please feel free.

Sincerely,

Rich Cline"

Looking at the law, the public defender is correct. In this case, I don't know if the ticketing officer misjudged the timing of the light, was ignorant of the law, or just chose to give a bad ticket, knowing he would probably get away with it.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Originally Posted By: ArrestMeRedZ
I googled Ohio traffic law and found it matched most other states - you don't run a red light unless you enter the intersection after the light is red, not yellow. However, the question posted on a Ohio law forum below indicated the law doesn't guarantee the ticketing officer won't make a mistake:

Q. "I received a ticket for 'running a red light' while turning left. However, the light did not turn red until I passed under it and was yellow as I turned. What is the Ohio law for going through a yellow light and should I fight my ticket?"

A. "Re: turning left on yellow light

Under Ohio law, you are legally permitted to enter the intersection on a yellow caution light. Once you have entered the intersection, you may complete the left turn even if the light turns red while you are waiting for on-coming traffic to clear. The issue is whether you had gained control of the intersection while the light was still yellow.
You can certainly fight the citation. One factor you may wish to consider is whether it is economical to do so. Even if you hired an attorney on a flat fee basis (as opposed to an hourly rate) you are likely to invest several hundred (if not a thousand or more) in attorney fees. No attorney can guarantee that you will win the case. Therefore, you might be spending several hundred to over a thousand dollars and still end up guilty of the ticket.
That might make sense if you drive for a living, have lots of points on your license now, or for some other reason simply cannot afford to be convicted of this offense.
I hope this helps you make a decision. If you would like to call me to discuss it further, please feel free.

Sincerely,

Rich Cline"

Looking at the law, the public defender is correct. In this case, I don't know if the ticketing officer misjudged the timing of the light, was ignorant of the law, or just chose to give a bad ticket, knowing he would probably get away with it.
I got my one and only moving violation for entering intersection on yellow in 1958. I don't know exact reason why but ticket was dismissed. I'm still a little paranoid about entering an intersection on yellow sixty years later.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Yah-Tah-Hey
I got my one and only moving violation for entering intersection on yellow in 1958. I don't know exact reason why but ticket was dismissed. I'm still a little paranoid about entering an intersection on yellow sixty years later.


Many traffic laws have changed since then. Before 1980 just a handful of states allowed right turns on red. (The last state with a right-on-red ban was Massachusetts. It ended its ban on January 1, 1980). Now all 50 states and Puerto Rico allow it. Unless the intersection is posted otherwise. Many of these type of, "get the traffic moving", and nationwide 55 MPH speed limit laws, were brought about by the gas shortage in the 70's.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Here is the MN driver manual on left turns in intersections. Page 26. It specifically says to enter the intersection when making a left turn on a green light. Positioning the body at the curb line is something I hadn't heard.
"When waiting to make a left turn at a green traffic light with oncoming traffic, position the car into the intersection where your body appears even with the curb line. The only opportunity to make a left turn may occur when the green light changes to yellow."
https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/dvs/forms-documents/Documents/Minnesota_Drivers_Manual.pdf


This was pretty standard when I grew up around Chicago, but I almost learned the hard way that this was not how things were done in Dallas when I moved there out of college.
During my first week there, I was out in the intersection on the green waiting to make a left and saw that there was only a single dualie pickup oncoming quite a ways away when the yellow came.
I went to make my left in a reasonably expeditious fashion only to have that giant pickup flash by inches from my trunk going probably twice the speed limit. Scared me to death and showed me that the generally nice and polite residents of that city did not drive in a very nice way. I am sure I would have spun like a top if that immense vehicle had caught my rear end at that speed...I had to totally adjust my take on turning left down there, for the locals the standard action to take on a yellow was to floor it.

BTW, flooring it was also the standard approach to starting to slide on ice in a RWD vehicle in Dallas...couldn't believe that folks who saw so many ice storms never learned how to drive in them. ;^)

 

[Walmill]

I don't know what the law states here in FL.
Regardless of what the law states, it is a practice that I find troublesome.
I've seen plenty of people get stuck in the middle because the traffic didn't end up flowing as they would have hoped. Then they try backing up and that causes even more issues.
Just wait until you're clear to go or wait an extra minute or so for you to have the right of way.

Plus, it feels like an added safety risk to be in the middle of the intersection. You never know if oncoming traffic might swerve and knick you because you stuck out a tiny bit or what if some doofus decides he is in as much of a rush as you and proceeds through the intersection oncoming as it turns yellow or even worse runs the red light?

 

[Colt45ws]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi

I went to make my left in a reasonably expeditious fashion only to have that giant pickup flash by inches from my trunk going probably twice the speed limit. Scared me to death and showed me that the generally nice and polite residents of that city did not drive in a very nice way. I am sure I would have spun like a top if that immense vehicle had caught my rear end at that speed...I had to totally adjust my take on turning left down there, for the locals the standard action to take on a yellow was to floor it.

Yeah, thats why nowadays if Im in the intersection on yellow, and traffic is approaching, I will wait until I am sure that they are clear or obviously coming to a stop before moving, even if that takes me a few seconds into the next green light.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Now all 50 states and Puerto Rico allow it. Unless the intersection is posted otherwise.

We still have a handful of intersections like that, where a right turn on red might be a hazard.

 

[Wylie6G72]

We're living in a world where a many drivers don't know the right-away rules at a 2-way or 4-way stop, they don't know that it's poor form, if not illegal, to pull out into the median area and stop during a left turn onto a divided road, they don't know that it's ok to turn right on red when there is absolutely no cross traffic and no signs prohibiting it, they don't know that a solid green gives right turners the right-of-way against left turners coming from the opposite direction, they don't know that pedestrians have the right-of-way at crosswalks near store entrances, and they don't know that it's a better idea to just go to the next block and turn around rather than cross 3 lanes of traffic in 2 seconds so they don't miss their turns.

You're asking too much.