Driver Education and Lane Discipline Rant

[John105]

If it was a highway/freeway I would agree but Woodward Ave is a local road and has neighborhoods, businesses, and turning lanes on both sides of the street. IMO it would not be practical to apply the stay-right-unless-passing on any local roads.

As far as being taught, I'm sure it's still taught by some or not taught by others. Some driving "schools" do the bare minimum; just enough so the student can pass their test. I don't remember the license test having a right-lane-unless-passing question though.

Many drivers in PA come to a complete stop on green, when making a left turn. They remain behind the stop line, and let the light go yellow, then red. This has to be a PA thing, potentially taught. Can you imagine if NYC, Boston, or DC?

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

On the 495 beltway around Washington, it's 4 lanes each direction plus a couple of toll lanes. You will see drivers doing 50 in the far left lane. It's dangerous. For a long time I couldn't figure it out. Let's just say most always it's a driver from areas of the world that don't drive much. My theory is that they are hugging the left lane and Jersey wall because they can't see or judge lanes. They can see left solid lines and jersey walls.

I've been here for almost 25 years and I still can't figure out 495. The spectrum of drivers on that road is VERY wide, going from 90mph nutjobs to 40mph rolling chicanes and everything in between, in every lane.

I'm a confident, somewhat aggressive driver and I still absolutely HATE driving on the beltway.

 

[Pew]

Yes. b

Yes, but the road I am referring to, Woodward Ave, has slip exits at almost every exit that allow you to turn for driving in the opposite direction without slowing down in your lane but in the slip exit so you don't slow traffic behind you.

But how would I get to a dedicated left turn lane without being in the left lane?

 

[John105]

I've been here for almost 25 years and I still can't figure out 495. The spectrum of drivers on that road is VERY wide, going from 90mph nutjobs to 40mph rolling chicanes and everything in between, in every lane.

I'm a confident, somewhat aggressive driver and I still absolutely HATE driving on the beltway.

Don’t they have aggressive driver enforcement there? That ought to say something. Here in Phila it’s like the Bronx 1977. Wild West. Literally.

 

[John105]

Seriously would there be mention of red light cams in driver Ed? Like hey,
You’re the captain of the ice hockey team and you are an incredible athlete staying on sides. Applying this concept. You can navigate a red light cam and not overreact, like slamming on the brakes when you see yellow

 

[JohnnyG]

May be signs like this would help?

View attachment 234995

I remember those! Haven't seen one in about 30 years!

 

[JohnnyG]

Out at the weekend driving south on Woodward Ave, here in the metro Detroit area. For those that don't know it, Woodward Ave is designated an M1 route (possibly the first in the US) meaning it is a historically designated route running from Detroit north to cities/towns, some 20+ miles and has been around since the early days of motor vehicles. Today it is a three lane each direction road (NOT a highway) with a wide grassy median in parts. Has been made more famous by the annual Dream Cruise in recent years, with classic cars cruising up and down to show off their finest in July/August.

Found myself following a learner driver, so in no hurry I waited for the vehicle to move over. As under the supervision of an instructor assumed it would happen with certainty, but I was wrong. After following for three or four miles, all in the left lane, they finally made their left turn (we call it a "Michigan Left"). Have asked police and others about the lane rules. Advised it remains the law to move over but is not enforced (or taught it seems!). Some have the attitude that if you are driving the speed limit you should not be overtaken, so why does it matter?

Have driven all over Europe and other parts of the world. Seems like this is the only country where this is NOT enforced. Infact if you were to overtake on the right side of a vehicle you would expect to receive a ticket/fine for dangerous driving in many countries. So for the sake of safety and patience just curious on other's thoughts. Seems this rule is NOT taught in Driver's Ed. anymore. Maybe it never was! Rant over!!

I absolutely CAN'T WAIT until all cars can read speed limit signs and will NOT allow you to exceed it. not even to pass!
Before you laugh, this has actually been proposed in England. Given the OPs post, it might actually work there, but here, NO way!

 

[JohnnyG]

Many drivers in PA come to a complete stop on green, when making a left turn. They remain behind the stop line, and let the light go yellow, then red. This has to be a PA thing, potentially taught. Can you imagine if NYC, Boston, or DC?

MAN, I never saw that in PA, must be to allow for an extra text message.

 

[dubber09]

I remember those! Haven't seen one in about 30 years!

WA state has them all over, actually helps.

 

[TMoto]

May be signs like this would help?

View attachment 234995

There are quite a few of those around the Denver area that nobody pays attention to. Just like the ones that say to take turns merging during high congestion.

 

[Cheetah-kins]

Don't take my comments here as being flippant OP, but you can save yourself a huge amount of stress and annoyance by simply not worrying about people who do this. The licensing test in the US is very minimal, so of course you end up with lot's of people that don't know the rules. Plus in the typical American way, lots of people don't care and/or think only of themselves when driving. Since you can't change them, it's best to change your self and simply ignore idiotic driving and be more patient. Trust me I totally understand the annoyance, but I've learned for my own sanity to not worry about such things.

 

[John105]

The oddity….I know someone who had a stroke and his license was taken away. He’s jumped through hoops to try to get it back and seemingly tons of red tape. I am likely misrepresenting but seems like his specialist holds all the cards. His livelihood depends on the ability to drive and he just said yesterday he’s about to give up. Meanwhile his 16 yo daughter got her license and now uses the family’s one personal vehicle. They only have 1 family car and 2 work trucks—she wants to use the work trucks when the CR-V is being used by mom. he says no you wreck a co vehicle and now we really have a problem.

I suppose we all need to appreciate our privilege to drive and that we are able to

 

[dubber09]

There are quite a few of those around the Denver area that nobody pays attention to. Just like the ones that say to take turns merging during high congestion.

HWY patrol may want to boost their revenue an easy way then, that will teach them bad drivers too ..

 

[Ausfahrt]

On the 495 beltway around Washington, it's 4 lanes each direction plus a couple of toll lanes. You will see drivers doing 50 in the far left lane. It's dangerous. For a long time I couldn't figure it out. Let's just say most always it's a driver from areas of the world that don't drive much. My theory is that they are hugging the left lane and Jersey wall because they can't see or judge lanes. They can see left solid lines and jersey walls.

I'm not buying that at all. Most of the developed world knows that they share the road and it's the Americans who assume that they own it. In third world countries you're on your own.

 

[SeaJay]

. Seems like this is the only country where this is NOT enforced. Infact if you were to overtake on the right side of a vehicle you would expect to receive a ticket/fine for dangerous driving in many countries. So for the sake of safety and patience just curious on other's thoughts. Seems this rule is NOT taught in Driver's Ed. anymore. Maybe it never was! Rant over!!

There isn't a whole lot of enforcement of most rules of the road by me at least. The main rule seems to be to do as you please without hitting any of the other vehicles on the road.

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

I'm not buying that at all. Most of the developed world knows that they share the road and it's the Americans who assume that they own it. In third world countries you're on your own.

As it was explained to me when I moved to NoVA, 'Nobody who lives here is from here', which makes sense.

I used to live in upstate New York. Everyone basically drove the same way. Far more often then not, people stayed right, used turn signals, knew how to merge, etc. People who drove aggressively or poorly stood out.

Well, not here. On a good day it's mildly annoying. On a bad day it's blood-boiling. The introduction of cell phones during that time has only made it worse.

 

[loneryder]

I've been here for almost 25 years and I still can't figure out 495. The spectrum of drivers on that road is VERY wide, going from 90mph nutjobs to 40mph rolling chicanes and everything in between, in every lane.

I'm a confident, somewhat aggressive driver and I still absolutely HATE driving on the beltway.

Gotten worse hasn't it. When I was an outside salesman, I practically lived on that Beltway. I stayed in the left lane all the time and didn't hold anybody up. Now I'm almost afraid to drive on it.

 

[Exhaustgases]

This is the reason for all the road rage in this state. I always pull over even on 2 lane roads, I can't afford the speeding ticket, and hate being pushed down the road.

I've also seen lately that some drivers have no idea how to park their car either. Saw one the other day that was not even in the parking space, and nosed halfway into the drive through area.

 

[VersatileGuy]

Unlimited speeds like certain parts of the autobahn in Germany would be impossible here because we lack lane discipline. A left lane camper cruising along at 100kph could potentially be rear ended by a car doing 300kph.

I have driven on the autobahn at around 150kph and been passed by a car travelling so fast that it rocked my car.

That is the great paradox and irony. The more one conforms with the rules, the faster everyone goes.

 

[Carmudgeon]

Don't take my comments here as being flippant OP, but you can save yourself a huge amount of stress and annoyance by simply not worrying about people who do this. The licensing test in the US is very minimal, so of course you end up with lot's of people that don't know the rules. Plus in the typical American way, lots of people don't care and/or think only of themselves when driving. Since you can't change them, it's best to change your self and simply ignore idiotic driving and be more patient. Trust me I totally understand the annoyance, but I've learned for my own sanity to not worry about such things.

That's the approach I try to take as well, but it's difficult a lot of times when the basic rules of the road aren't respected, or the lack of a presence of mind forces you into situations that should never have existed. Even on quieter residential streets, one can no longer assume the other driver won't just treat the Stop sign as a suggestion, while they're looking at you in the eye, approaching with the right of way.

As wild as driving in Italy is characterized, with impatience and tailgating part of the routine, one thing I found they do observe there is lane discipline; much more so than here. They drive fast as well, outside of the camera zones.

Jokes are often tossed around about BMW drivers and turn signals, but American vehicles also seem to lack rear view mirrors, based on the predominant behaviors.