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BB, Having said all that … take a deep breath … seem a bit stressed …
Driver crashes after passing out with n95 mask
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Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
If N95 and other PPE isn't pretty effective, then why doesn't the CDC and many other professional medical organizations say all hospital workers working around CV-19 patients have to wear a completely sealed bubble boy suit with super HEPA filtered air.
Because money? Because they need them to show up to work, and they've already fearmongered the mess out of this?
OK, you win the internet for the day....
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
If N95 and other PPE isn't pretty effective, then why doesn't the CDC and many other professional medical organizations say all hospital workers working around CV-19 patients have to wear a completely sealed bubble boy suit with super HEPA filtered air.
Because money? Because they need them to show up to work, and they've already fearmongered the mess out of this?
OK, you win the internet for the day....
Originally Posted by bbhero
Because it is not airborne...
It's droplet and contact..
Question... If it is airborne then... Are ALL those people in negative pressure rooms with totally separate ventilation system??
I'd bet no...
There are not hardly any negative pressure rooms in a hospital...
And this is not airborne spread.
Interestingly, Shingles is airborne.
That said, I've never really been stressed about isolation stuff. Outside of a true biocontainment facility, it's all just dog and pony show with a dash of risk reduction.
Because it is not airborne...
It's droplet and contact..
Question... If it is airborne then... Are ALL those people in negative pressure rooms with totally separate ventilation system??
I'd bet no...
There are not hardly any negative pressure rooms in a hospital...
And this is not airborne spread.
Interestingly, Shingles is airborne.
That said, I've never really been stressed about isolation stuff. Outside of a true biocontainment facility, it's all just dog and pony show with a dash of risk reduction.
Yeah I know shingles is airborne... We had only 2 rooms that we're for airborne precaution patients...
2 on my floor... And 3a telemetry had only 2 has well... Out of 28 rooms too.
Rarely and ( thankfully) we had anyone who was on true airborne precaution.
2 on my floor... And 3a telemetry had only 2 has well... Out of 28 rooms too.
Rarely and ( thankfully) we had anyone who was on true airborne precaution.
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Yeah and from the article
Conclusions: The study indicates that N95 filtering facepiece respirators may not achieve the expected protection level against bacteria and viruses.
Here's why
It was testing AEROSOL (the carrier) with a model virus. Once the carrier saturates the media even at the particulate level ( like these masks are very thin and 1 pass) then it actually alters the filtering capability ( like a wet napkin) and its compromised.
It also says
When testing at an inhalation flow rate of 85 l min−1, the penetration of MS2 virions (0.01-0.08 μm) through the N95 respirator filter exceeded 5%. For surgical masks, the penetration was much higher and varied from 20.5 to 84.5%. In these studies, the respirators were sealed on a manikin face to account only for particles penetrating through the respirator filter material. However, airborne particles can also enter the respirator cavity through face-seal leaks and be subsequently inhaled into human respiratory systems.
What that means in non techno English is that in a situation like a medical procedure where there is minimal exposure and minimal time and then the filter is changed out- there is an "acceptable" degree of protection from contact from an agent working through the filter from the carrier.
Nobody disputes that under those conditions.
But to believe that this is wear 'all day" and in all circumstances a valid "protection" as is currently being pronounced is not correct. Then to believe a piece of cloth ( forget sub micron filtration with a cut up Tee shirt) is also "acceptable"?
The difference is that those who have actually done these things in real world applications have a little greater depth of understanding that reading an article and not recognizing that it doesn't answer everything and are often conditional in the findings.
See theres a reason there are those big layered filters and complex valves on military grade equipment and we aren't issued nose cups.
I think others have basically been saying it's worthless but it's not. They're also supposed to change masks between patients. The only reason they're wearing them all day is because they don't have enough, not because it was some accepted science. All they're doing is making do with what they have, not going by best practices.
But because it's not completely effective, I don't find that to be grounds for not using them at all. No one every claimed that they were completely effective and we were just talking about N95 mask, the surgical ones aren't as good and mainly the recommendation for that one was basically to stop people who were sick but didn't know it from spreading it around. Only reason for cloth masks is that there isn't enough N95 and surgical masks to go around to everyone. That's just based on the theory that something is better than nothing. I think some are putting filters inside the cloth masks so depending on the material used, it could be close to a surgical one.
Yeah and from the article
Conclusions: The study indicates that N95 filtering facepiece respirators may not achieve the expected protection level against bacteria and viruses.
Here's why
It was testing AEROSOL (the carrier) with a model virus. Once the carrier saturates the media even at the particulate level ( like these masks are very thin and 1 pass) then it actually alters the filtering capability ( like a wet napkin) and its compromised.
It also says
When testing at an inhalation flow rate of 85 l min−1, the penetration of MS2 virions (0.01-0.08 μm) through the N95 respirator filter exceeded 5%. For surgical masks, the penetration was much higher and varied from 20.5 to 84.5%. In these studies, the respirators were sealed on a manikin face to account only for particles penetrating through the respirator filter material. However, airborne particles can also enter the respirator cavity through face-seal leaks and be subsequently inhaled into human respiratory systems.
What that means in non techno English is that in a situation like a medical procedure where there is minimal exposure and minimal time and then the filter is changed out- there is an "acceptable" degree of protection from contact from an agent working through the filter from the carrier.
Nobody disputes that under those conditions.
But to believe that this is wear 'all day" and in all circumstances a valid "protection" as is currently being pronounced is not correct. Then to believe a piece of cloth ( forget sub micron filtration with a cut up Tee shirt) is also "acceptable"?
The difference is that those who have actually done these things in real world applications have a little greater depth of understanding that reading an article and not recognizing that it doesn't answer everything and are often conditional in the findings.
See theres a reason there are those big layered filters and complex valves on military grade equipment and we aren't issued nose cups.
I think others have basically been saying it's worthless but it's not. They're also supposed to change masks between patients. The only reason they're wearing them all day is because they don't have enough, not because it was some accepted science. All they're doing is making do with what they have, not going by best practices.
But because it's not completely effective, I don't find that to be grounds for not using them at all. No one every claimed that they were completely effective and we were just talking about N95 mask, the surgical ones aren't as good and mainly the recommendation for that one was basically to stop people who were sick but didn't know it from spreading it around. Only reason for cloth masks is that there isn't enough N95 and surgical masks to go around to everyone. That's just based on the theory that something is better than nothing. I think some are putting filters inside the cloth masks so depending on the material used, it could be close to a surgical one.
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by bbhero
Because it is not airborne...
It's droplet and contact..
Question... If it is airborne then... Are ALL those people in negative pressure rooms with totally separate ventilation system??
I'd bet no...
There are not hardly any negative pressure rooms in a hospital...
And this is not airborne spread.
Interestingly, Shingles is airborne.
That said, I've never really been stressed about isolation stuff. Outside of a true biocontainment facility, it's all just dog and pony show with a dash of risk reduction.
And I agree ^^^^^
Risk reduction... And dog and pony show to a very large degree. . I agree.
Originally Posted by bbhero
Because it is not airborne...
It's droplet and contact..
Question... If it is airborne then... Are ALL those people in negative pressure rooms with totally separate ventilation system??
I'd bet no...
There are not hardly any negative pressure rooms in a hospital...
And this is not airborne spread.
Interestingly, Shingles is airborne.
That said, I've never really been stressed about isolation stuff. Outside of a true biocontainment facility, it's all just dog and pony show with a dash of risk reduction.
And I agree ^^^^^
Risk reduction... And dog and pony show to a very large degree. . I agree.
Originally Posted by bbhero
Feel good does not equal good or great efficacy...
No matter how hard you try...
Feel good mitigates litigation and enhances worker performance and general atmosphere for a much lower cost than real results.
Feel good does not equal good or great efficacy...
No matter how hard you try...
Feel good mitigates litigation and enhances worker performance and general atmosphere for a much lower cost than real results.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by bbhero
Because it is not airborne...
It's droplet and contact..
Then people shouldn't claim N95 PPE is worthless and not going to stop transmission.
N95 is great. Works wonders with exposed conjunctiva. So safe. Much mitigation.
Originally Posted by bbhero
Because it is not airborne...
It's droplet and contact..
Then people shouldn't claim N95 PPE is worthless and not going to stop transmission.
N95 is great. Works wonders with exposed conjunctiva. So safe. Much mitigation.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by bbhero
Because it is not airborne...
It's droplet and contact..
Then people shouldn't claim N95 PPE is worthless and not going to stop transmission.
Then people also should stop acting like it's airborne...
And a n 95 mask is not necessary either is it ?? No it's not... .
All that is needed is a surgical mask if a person has the condition..
Not everyone else needs a mask at all. . . If ... They are not inside of say 5 feet of anyone else... Or on a plane or bus etc etc...
Let's isolate and protect those who are at risk...
Not isolate everyone....
And I am over things a lot...
My facility is thinking of admitting people with the SARS II... And that is not just a bad idea... It's a super bad idea... Looney tunes.
Originally Posted by bbhero
Because it is not airborne...
It's droplet and contact..
Then people shouldn't claim N95 PPE is worthless and not going to stop transmission.
Then people also should stop acting like it's airborne...
And a n 95 mask is not necessary either is it ?? No it's not... .
All that is needed is a surgical mask if a person has the condition..
Not everyone else needs a mask at all. . . If ... They are not inside of say 5 feet of anyone else... Or on a plane or bus etc etc...
Let's isolate and protect those who are at risk...
Not isolate everyone....
And I am over things a lot...
My facility is thinking of admitting people with the SARS II... And that is not just a bad idea... It's a super bad idea... Looney tunes.
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by bbhero
Feel good does not equal good or great efficacy...
No matter how hard you try...
Feel good mitigates litigation and enhances worker performance and general atmosphere for a much lower cost than real results.
I agree again...
Efficacy does not matter or mean anything... To those people. It is all window dressing.
Originally Posted by bbhero
Feel good does not equal good or great efficacy...
No matter how hard you try...
Feel good mitigates litigation and enhances worker performance and general atmosphere for a much lower cost than real results.
I agree again...
Efficacy does not matter or mean anything... To those people. It is all window dressing.
Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by bbhero
Because it is not airborne...
It's droplet and contact..
Then people shouldn't claim N95 PPE is worthless and not going to stop transmission.
Then people also should stop acting like it's airborne...
And a n 95 mask is not necessary either is it ?? No it's not... .
All that is needed is a surgical mask if a person has the condition..
Not everyone else needs a mask at all. . . If ... They are not inside of say 5 feet of anyone else... Or on a plane or bus etc etc...
Let's isolate and protect those who are at risk...
Not isolate everyone....
And I am over things a lot...
My facility is thinking of admitting people with the SARS II... And that is not just a bad idea... It's a super bad idea... Looney tunes.
I basically agree with what was said, however you don't know who has the condition. People in their 20-30-40s are having strokes. There's reports of heart disease. It's not clear who is really at risk and if you can tell if you will be in the 80 percent with mild symptoms or the 20 that ends up in the hospital.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by bbhero
Because it is not airborne...
It's droplet and contact..
Then people shouldn't claim N95 PPE is worthless and not going to stop transmission.
Then people also should stop acting like it's airborne...
And a n 95 mask is not necessary either is it ?? No it's not... .
All that is needed is a surgical mask if a person has the condition..
Not everyone else needs a mask at all. . . If ... They are not inside of say 5 feet of anyone else... Or on a plane or bus etc etc...
Let's isolate and protect those who are at risk...
Not isolate everyone....
And I am over things a lot...
My facility is thinking of admitting people with the SARS II... And that is not just a bad idea... It's a super bad idea... Looney tunes.
I basically agree with what was said, however you don't know who has the condition. People in their 20-30-40s are having strokes. There's reports of heart disease. It's not clear who is really at risk and if you can tell if you will be in the 80 percent with mild symptoms or the 20 that ends up in the hospital.
Well...
We have to live at some point...
And life... Is full of risks... Everyday.
Hiding or being forced to hide is not helping... At some point... It becomes destructive at some point....
And I'm sorry but I have not much belief in healthcare..
All the stuff we had to do all of this to keep it out of my facility in the beginning...
Only then to turn around and admit people in with it weeks later.... Made zero sense. Zero.
Looney.
And of all places... People who are all 65+ and a lot going on physically... Sure... Great place to bring that in...
Looney tunes.
Again... We need to isolate those most at risk...
Everyone else needs to get rolling and start working and living again.
We have to live at some point...
And life... Is full of risks... Everyday.
Hiding or being forced to hide is not helping... At some point... It becomes destructive at some point....
And I'm sorry but I have not much belief in healthcare..
All the stuff we had to do all of this to keep it out of my facility in the beginning...
Only then to turn around and admit people in with it weeks later.... Made zero sense. Zero.
Looney.
And of all places... People who are all 65+ and a lot going on physically... Sure... Great place to bring that in...
Looney tunes.
Again... We need to isolate those most at risk...
Everyone else needs to get rolling and start working and living again.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
So what's the recorded percentage of people working with & near CV patients in hospitals, healthcare facilities, etc that have correctly worn N95 masks and associated PPE have contracted the disease?
How do you even come close to ensuring whether or not it was worn correctly in this matrices?
So what's the recorded percentage of people working with & near CV patients in hospitals, healthcare facilities, etc that have correctly worn N95 masks and associated PPE have contracted the disease?
How do you even come close to ensuring whether or not it was worn correctly in this matrices?
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by bbhero
Because it is not airborne...
It's droplet and contact..
Then people shouldn't claim N95 PPE is worthless and not going to stop transmission.
Then people also should stop acting like it's airborne...
And a n 95 mask is not necessary either is it ?? No it's not... .
All that is needed is a surgical mask if a person has the condition..
Not everyone else needs a mask at all. . . If ... They are not inside of say 5 feet of anyone else... Or on a plane or bus etc etc...
Let's isolate and protect those who are at risk...
Not isolate everyone....
And I am over things a lot...
My facility is thinking of admitting people with the SARS II... And that is not just a bad idea... It's a super bad idea... Looney tunes.
I basically agree with what was said, however you don't know who has the condition. People in their 20-30-40s are having strokes. There's reports of heart disease. It's not clear who is really at risk and if you can tell if you will be in the 80 percent with mild symptoms or the 20 that ends up in the hospital.
When the final count is in, people will be so mad at what we shut down for.
Sepsis can cause all sorts of stuff. Dont go around saying covid causes strokes. Nicking your finger can cause a stroke by that matrix.
Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by bbhero
Because it is not airborne...
It's droplet and contact..
Then people shouldn't claim N95 PPE is worthless and not going to stop transmission.
Then people also should stop acting like it's airborne...
And a n 95 mask is not necessary either is it ?? No it's not... .
All that is needed is a surgical mask if a person has the condition..
Not everyone else needs a mask at all. . . If ... They are not inside of say 5 feet of anyone else... Or on a plane or bus etc etc...
Let's isolate and protect those who are at risk...
Not isolate everyone....
And I am over things a lot...
My facility is thinking of admitting people with the SARS II... And that is not just a bad idea... It's a super bad idea... Looney tunes.
I basically agree with what was said, however you don't know who has the condition. People in their 20-30-40s are having strokes. There's reports of heart disease. It's not clear who is really at risk and if you can tell if you will be in the 80 percent with mild symptoms or the 20 that ends up in the hospital.
When the final count is in, people will be so mad at what we shut down for.
Sepsis can cause all sorts of stuff. Dont go around saying covid causes strokes. Nicking your finger can cause a stroke by that matrix.
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
So what's the recorded percentage of people working with & near CV patients in hospitals, healthcare facilities, etc that have correctly worn N95 masks and associated PPE have contracted the disease?
How do you even come close to ensuring whether or not it was worn correctly in this matrices?
Ok, take out the "worn correctly" parameter ... what's the recorded cases of transmission to CV patient care takers wearing N95 and associated PPE? I'd venture to think that anyone in close proximity and working on CV patients would pretty much be real conscious about using the PPE correctly. Wouldn't you?
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
So what's the recorded percentage of people working with & near CV patients in hospitals, healthcare facilities, etc that have correctly worn N95 masks and associated PPE have contracted the disease?
How do you even come close to ensuring whether or not it was worn correctly in this matrices?
Ok, take out the "worn correctly" parameter ... what's the recorded cases of transmission to CV patient care takers wearing N95 and associated PPE? I'd venture to think that anyone in close proximity and working on CV patients would pretty much be real conscious about using the PPE correctly. Wouldn't you?
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