Drain and Fill CVT

Well, I goofed today. I bought Valvoline CVT two separate times. Except the second time I got Valvoline ATF ULV. The bottle and label looked the same except ATF ULV. The boxes looked the same. So, I replaced 4 quarts to my Buick Encore GX CVT of the ATF ULV fluid. I took it on test ride. I thought good. The transmission is operating much smoother than it had been. When I went to take a picture of the bottle, I then noticed it said ATF ULV. Darn! But the transmission was operating so smoothly. Would it hurt?

Then I looked up if anyone using ULV on CVT transmission. I found that Toyota has been specifying on their CVT's lately. I ran across a statement; ATF ULV (Ultra-Low Viscosity) is a specialized automatic transmission fluid designed for modern vehicles, particularly those with advanced transmission systems like CVTs (Continuously Variable Transmissions). ULV fluid in CVT's may be a new trend. I will keep tracking that, and whatever reports I find.

So, I am going to leave it in for the next 3000 miles and see if it continues to run smoothly. This is the smoothest the transmission has run since I got the car. The variable clutch seems a lot quieter. Winter is coming, figuring the Ultra Low Viscosity (ULV) fluid will be better in cold weather.
 
I've only done one draIn-and-fill on a CVT - a friend's c. 2014 Nissan Murano 3.5.

I measured what came out, and replaced it with the same volume.

Fortunately the transmission had a dipstick, so I didn't have to worry about matching fluid temperature, etc.

Per the dipstick, the fluid level was pretty much perfect afterwards.
 
CarbonToast said:
When the temp is important, I use a heat gun on the pan to measure it. +- 20 degrees isn't going to matter. I assume they specify a temp to eliminate ambiguity. 50 degrees vs. 20 degrees ambient. 50 degrees vs. 110 degrees is a huge difference.
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I do the same except use the lower part of the range.
 
I have not read all the replies, but I can tell you on a Subaru that quantity out does not equal quantity in. When you drain a Subaru outback, you might get 5 quarts out, but you’re only able to put maybe 3 1/2 quarts back in unless you warm up the transmissions and cycle through the gears. That’s why using temperature is so important. I initially thought the same thing, just measure what you get out and put it back in, but it doesn’t work that way. Now you can warm it up and get the missing quantity in after you’ve cycle through the gears, but you’re really not sure you have the right quantity unless you do it by temperature.
 
As an engineer I see two choices. Change fluid with both new and old hot, or new and old cold, or at ambient. Transmission fluid is so thin to start with, what difference does it make if it is cold, or ambient. Leave your vehicle cool down.

Measuring options. A mark on container exactly what you took out. Fill to mark for new. Second, weigh what you took out, and put the same weight of fluid back in.
 
drugrep said:
I have not read all the replies, but I can tell you on a Subaru that quantity out does not equal quantity in. When you drain a Subaru outback, you might get 5 quarts out, but you’re only able to put maybe 3 1/2 quarts back in unless you warm up the transmissions and cycle through the gears. That’s why using temperature is so important. I initially thought the same thing, just measure what you get out and put it back in, but it doesn’t work that way. Now you can warm it up and get the missing quantity in after you’ve cycle through the gears, but you’re really not sure you have the right quantity unless you do it by temperature.
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On the Subaru there is a fill plug further up you use for refill after overhaul. I think you could add back as much as you want through this plug during a drain and fill. When i overhauled mine I followed this process.

Here is the excerpt from the factory service manual.

1000009757.webp
 
JeffKeryk said:
Fluid services should be simple. What is wrong with car manufacturers today?
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They don’t want you touching them. A coworkers husband is the shop foreman at a large volume Nissan dealer in Missouri. I’ve picked his brain quite a bit over the years as he was also a tech for 25 yrs. After speaking with Nissan, they got rid of the dipsticks because some Joe blow would check the transmission and add fluid to bring it up to full, even thought it was perfect. A 1/4 to 1/2 quart will end up being catastrophic at some point. My 09 was case in point. A dealer checked the deterioration via consult and added some ns2. How much, I have no clue, they charged me for a quart. 10000 miles later it started whining on a hot august day @90k. In all honesty, it did me a favor since the cvt was warrantied to 120k due to class action. I just changed my strainer yesterday (waste of time) and minus having to helicoil a bolt hole due to a crappy amazon torque wrench, there was next to no debris or sludge. I have always done transmission and valve covers by feel with a 1/4” drive, so of course the 1st bolt while trying to do it by the book spun. DANGIT! I did the strainer once @70k or so and yesterday was @120k. This 18 rogue may go down as one of the best cars I’ve ever owned. Of course I don’t just run the bejesus out of it and pay no mind to service and then jump on social forums and complain what a pile of dung it is.
 
I lift up my Mitsubishi on a fork lift and then use a level on the motor to get it just so. But after 57 alterations I use an unapproved fluid so I can save $7
 
D1dad said:
They don’t want you touching them. A coworkers husband is the shop foreman at a large volume Nissan dealer in Missouri. I’ve picked his brain quite a bit over the years as he was also a tech for 25 yrs. After speaking with Nissan, they got rid of the dipsticks because some Joe blow would check the transmission and add fluid to bring it up to full, even thought it was perfect. A 1/4 to 1/2 quart will end up being catastrophic at some point. My 09 was case in point. A dealer checked the deterioration via consult and added some ns2. How much, I have no clue, they charged me for a quart. 10000 miles later it started whining on a hot august day @90k. In all honesty, it did me a favor since the cvt was warrantied to 120k due to class action. I just changed my strainer yesterday (waste of time) and minus having to helicoil a bolt hole due to a crappy amazon torque wrench, there was next to no debris or sludge. I have always done transmission and valve covers by feel with a 1/4” drive, so of course the 1st bolt while trying to do it by the book spun. DANGIT! I did the strainer once @70k or so and yesterday was @120k. This 18 rogue may go down as one of the best cars I’ve ever owned. Of course I don’t just run the bejesus out of it and pay no mind to service and then jump on social forums and complain what a pile of dung it is.
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But it makes little sense. If it is hard for me to perform the service, it is hard for a shop to do the service as well.
If the spec calls for level set at a specific range, then put a readout in the Maintenance section. It is probably a few lines of code. Sheesh.

Bottom line is, if a task is hard to do, or requires a shop to perform it, it will be neglected, or forgotten, by far to many customers.

Of course Toyota has that life time ATF for the Aisin transmissionmissions. Aisin says to service it, but what do they know, right?
 
It's not that hard to go by temp and drip. I've been doing it on Mercedes and BMW that way since we bought both in 2008, so 2010? I use an infrared thermometer on metal pans and a candy thermometer on plastic pans. The amount isn't that critical that a couple of degrees or a couple of ounces will kill the transmission or make it shift poorly.
 
JeffKeryk said:
But it makes little sense. If it is hard for me to perform the service, it is hard for a shop to do the service as well.
If the spec calls for level set at a specific range, then put a readout in the Maintenance section. It is probably a few lines of code. Sheesh.

Bottom line is, if a task is hard to do, or requires a shop to perform it, it will be neglected, or forgotten, by far to many customers.

Of course Toyota has that life time ATF for the Aisin transmissions. Aisin says to service it, but what do they know, right?
Click to expand...
You’re not wrong. On the flip side, someone with next to no mechanical ability tries the job and then Tommy boys the daylights out of it. My local dealer just a few years ago charged $199 for a Nissan cvt drain and fill. There sign now reads $349! This is a job that even with oem fluid is $80, and 1 hour of time. I would take my new cars in around 40k and have them do it, just to document that it was done in case a problem arose. I had usually already had done it once, but figured that for that price and getting it noted in the system is a good thing. I wasn’t a fan of $199, no way would I pay $349. I’m sure there’s many owners who forgo the maintenance now, who probably would have done it before the price increase.
 
I want to do the cold same amount exchange for Subaru CVT’s but I have not found a way to do it (as the fill plug is positioned for a warmed, running, gear cycled) check. Cold it would dump a quart from the check plug. I guess it could be parked overnight with its check plug side up in the air, like on a high curb or slope. 🤷
 
redwolf4k said:
I want to do the cold same amount exchange for Subaru CVT’s but I have not found a way to do it (as the fill plug is positioned for a warmed, running, gear cycled) check. Cold it would dump a quart from the check plug. I guess it could be parked overnight with its check plug side up in the air, like on a high curb or slope. 🤷
Click to expand...
There is a fill plug further up used for complete overhaul. It will accept more fluid than the level check plug. Probably would work for you are trying to do.

1768739200403.webp
 
So here is a video, you can drain let’s say 4.5 qt cold. He was not able to get same amount back in. There is something in design that prevents what you put back in from going directly into drain area. You would think since fill plug is higher than the drain you could get 4.5 qt back in, but you cannot. Its must be taken up before it will accept the rest of the fluid.

See at 20min 50 sec. He gets 3.5 back in and it starts running out the fill plug, but he got more than that out. You must start and cycle through the gears. The capacity of the fill is 3.5 quarts even if you’ve drained 5 qt, you can’t get it back in without cycling through the gears.

 
redwolf4k said:
I want to do the cold same amount exchange for Subaru CVT’s but I have not found a way to do it (as the fill plug is positioned for a warmed, running, gear cycled) check. Cold it would dump a quart from the check plug. I guess it could be parked overnight with its check plug side up in the air, like on a high curb or slope. 🤷
Click to expand...
Why not just do it properly at the correct temp? It really isn't hard! It may just take 15 more minutes. Good luck!
Mike B
 
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