Drag race oils

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Originally Posted By: johnnydc
Originally Posted By: CONMCK
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
If you have a radical cam in there, and it looks like you do, Id say that your best 0w30 would be Brad Penn if you can get it.


I'll make some calls and see about the Brad Penn availability,

Whats you opinion on the Valvoline VR-1 Racing oils, they have 3 different types,
VR-1 racing (conventional),
VR-1 racing (synthetic),
Specialty Racing Oil,


Valvoline VR1 is a very good oil. Been around for many years and many folks use it. Very good price for the stout oil. They have 5/30 or 10/30 in VR1 flavor. I don't know if they have a VR1 0/30. The VR1 line is like street and track use. The specialty racing oil is for trck use only.


I don't see 0w-30 on the valvoline site. No real difference between 0w-30 and 5w30 and for that matter 10w-30 once the oil/motor is warmed up.
 
Yeah since the small block chevy was always meant to have 30 or 40 weight oil, going lower would not sit well with me either.

And if you have a roller cam Id say an off the shelf 5-30 would be fine aslo. But with a probably fairly radical flat tappet solid lifter cam in there(and I am guessing heavy springs) I would not feel comfy even with the high mileage boosted zinc Mobil 1 oils.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Yeah since the small block chevy was always meant to have 30 or 40 weight oil, going lower would not sit well with me either.

And if you have a roller cam Id say an off the shelf 5-30 would be fine aslo. But with a probably fairly radical flat tappet solid lifter cam in there(and I am guessing heavy springs) I would not feel comfy even with the high mileage boosted zinc Mobil 1 oils.



It is a solid roller.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Yeah since the small block chevy was always meant to have 30 or 40 weight oil, going lower would not sit well with me either.

And if you have a roller cam Id say an off the shelf 5-30 would be fine aslo. But with a probably fairly radical flat tappet solid lifter cam in there(and I am guessing heavy springs) I would not feel comfy even with the high mileage boosted zinc Mobil 1 oils.



It is a solid roller.


I stand corrected then...must have misread. In that case German Castrol 0w30 might be a decent fit. Pretty stout oil.
 
Originally Posted By: CONMCK
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: tig1
We have a member here that has a GM drag car and uses M1 5-30 off the shelf. Problem is I don't remember his screen name.

Yep. For the price it's tough to beat.
Now in all honesty any conventional 5w-30 would be fine since the engine only runs for a few minutes at a time,and you likely drain it after each event.
The common thought is to go thicker but in reality,because your at wide open throttle a good 5w-20 would be ideal. It lessens pumping losses,gets to temp fast and as long as you maintain roughly 10 pounds oil pressure for every 1000 rpms it's more than enough. You may have slightly less oil pressure however you will have more volume,which is really what your after.
I know I will get flamed for this post and by all means go ahead,but the logic behind my reasoning makes sense.


No flame here,
For the last 10 years or so I usually change the filter every 30 passes, change the oil/filter every 60 passes, average about 125 passes a year. I always change oil and filter at the end of the season and store it with fresh. If I start out with a fresh engine I will change it abit more often like 2 or 3 times in the first 20 or so passes, make sure everything is okay and then the normal maint after.

I am abit leery about the 5w-20 vis , my routine is to warm the engine thouroughly at the start of the day, give it a good heat soak. Hot oil, cool water when it is time to race. This is a bracket car, looking for the best consistancy therefore I must start out with hot oil, otherwise as the day progresses, the oil keeps heating and car is harder to keep consistant. (water temps are always within about 5 degrees at the starting line, anyday, anytime!!!!) Right now with 0w-30, hot, I trap at 50 psi, idle at 1200 at approx 20 psi.


Since you have a well-established regimen for managing your oil life, you know how to make your engine last. A suggestion I would make would be to pick an oil with high Viscosity Index to minimize the variation of viscosity due to differing oil temperatures from pass to pass. This may help improve your consistency, which is key in bracket racing. Mobil 1 Racing 0w30 and Redline 0w30 would be good ones to consider.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: CONMCK
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: tig1
We have a member here that has a GM drag car and uses M1 5-30 off the shelf. Problem is I don't remember his screen name.

Yep. For the price it's tough to beat.
Now in all honesty any conventional 5w-30 would be fine since the engine only runs for a few minutes at a time,and you likely drain it after each event.
The common thought is to go thicker but in reality,because your at wide open throttle a good 5w-20 would be ideal. It lessens pumping losses,gets to temp fast and as long as you maintain roughly 10 pounds oil pressure for every 1000 rpms it's more than enough. You may have slightly less oil pressure however you will have more volume,which is really what your after.
I know I will get flamed for this post and by all means go ahead,but the logic behind my reasoning makes sense.


No flame here,
For the last 10 years or so I usually change the filter every 30 passes, change the oil/filter every 60 passes, average about 125 passes a year. I always change oil and filter at the end of the season and store it with fresh. If I start out with a fresh engine I will change it abit more often like 2 or 3 times in the first 20 or so passes, make sure everything is okay and then the normal maint after.

I am abit leery about the 5w-20 vis , my routine is to warm the engine thouroughly at the start of the day, give it a good heat soak. Hot oil, cool water when it is time to race. This is a bracket car, looking for the best consistancy therefore I must start out with hot oil, otherwise as the day progresses, the oil keeps heating and car is harder to keep consistant. (water temps are always within about 5 degrees at the starting line, anyday, anytime!!!!) Right now with 0w-30, hot, I trap at 50 psi, idle at 1200 at approx 20 psi.


Since you have a well-established regimen for managing your oil life, you know how to make your engine last. A suggestion I would make would be to pick an oil with high Viscosity Index to minimize the variation of viscosity due to differing oil temperatures from pass to pass. This may help improve your consistency, which is key in bracket racing. Mobil 1 Racing 0w30 and Redline 0w30 would be good ones to consider.
/

Yes, except I'm trying to replace the $15- $17 dollar oil with oil costing half or less and still provide adequate protection.
I'm looking after 2 race cars, (my daughters dragster as well) $600 - 700 a year in oil is average with $15/L oil
 
I agree, $15 dollar a quart oil is very money consuming. You can definitly get good lubrication for a half that price or cheaper. Like I said, See if you can get the Brad Penn from a speed shop or distributor. I have a freind who orders it right from the distributor hear in town. I think he pays like $5 or less per quart. And they have the 0w30 in the racing formula you are looking for. http://www.penngrade1.com/
 
Originally Posted By: johnnydc

I agree, $15 dollar a quart oil is very money consuming. You can definitly get good lubrication for a half that price or cheaper. Like I said, See if you can get the Brad Penn from a speed shop or distributor. I have a freind who orders it right from the distributor hear in town. I think he pays like $5 or less per quart. And they have the 0w30 in the racing formula you are looking for. http://www.penngrade1.com/

I checked yesterday, Brad Penn is $9.00/L, not too bad comparing too RP, etc.
I'll check a few other distributors next week.
 
Lot of bad advice here about using low viscosity oils, Do you happen to know the clearances on the main/rod bearings? Generally for an SBC iron block SR i'll be looking for .0025"-.003" for main/rod bearing clearance. Factory bearing clearance is .0015", remember factory clearances are for 300hp usage. Point is, you need an oil with heavier viscosity. The more oil a bearing can hold, better reliability you will have at higher power levels. Out of the box Scat Forged Rod/ Scat Crank and Clevite HN bearing, will have .0025" clearance.

20W-50 is the typical race oil used, also pour in a 4oz bottle of ZDDP additive to any over the counter oils (or GM EOS). 1000ppm zinc isn't enough for solid roller, need 1500+ppm zinc. You will only find that in a racing oil. Mobil1 Racing, Redline, Amsoil Dominator, maybe Brad Penn. Valvoline VR1 is ok but what you really need is the "not street legal", Valvoline VR1 NSL. The regular over the counter VR1 is barley more robust in additive then the other street oils, add Zinc. Its safer to have more viscosity in a race engine oil.

Nascar qualifying engines and NHRA prostock they use SAE0 weight oil, the Nascar engine is only getting 3 laps when qualifying, and the prostock engine lasts 35 passes, in that kind of racing tenths are worth millions of dollars, 0 weight will have less windage, worth a few hp, at the cost of reliabliity. I'm sure you would like to have hundreds of passes with your SBC, 1-2 tenths of a second doesn't matter?

For just street driving, use HDEO, Rotella 15W-40, the only suspect I have on this oil is how will the extra detergent act in high rpm, foaming?. When racing best to use race oil 10W-40, 15W-50 or even SAE40.

Try Rotella 15W-40 with EOS additive, race it 20-30 passes take an oil sample, have it analyzed. Let us know the results.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Fraser434
Lot of bad advice here about using low viscosity oils, Do you happen to know the clearances on the main/rod bearings? Generally for an SBC iron block SR i'll be looking for .0025"-.003" for main/rod bearing clearance. Factory bearing clearance is .0015", remember factory clearances are for 300hp usage. Point is, you need an oil with heavier viscosity. The more oil a bearing can hold, better reliability you will have at higher power levels. Out of the box Scat Forged Rod/ Scat Crank and Clevite HN bearing, will have .0025" clearance.

20W-50 is the typical race oil used, also pour in a 4oz bottle of ZDDP additive to any over the counter oils (or GM EOS). 1000ppm zinc isn't enough for solid roller, need 1500+ppm zinc. You will only find that in a racing oil. Mobil1 Racing, Redline, Amsoil Dominator, maybe Brad Penn. Valvoline VR1 is ok but what you really need is the "not street legal", Valvoline VR1 NSL. The regular over the counter VR1 is barley more robust in additive then the other street oils, add Zinc. Its safer to have more viscosity in a race engine oil.

Nascar qualifying engines and NHRA prostock they use SAE0 weight oil, the Nascar engine is only getting 3 laps when qualifying, and the prostock engine lasts 35 passes, in that kind of racing tenths are worth millions of dollars, 0 weight will have less windage, worth a few hp, at the cost of reliabliity. I'm sure you would like to have hundreds of passes with your SBC, 1-2 tenths of a second doesn't matter?

For just street driving, use HDEO, Rotella 15W-40, the only suspect I have on this oil is how will the extra detergent act in high rpm, foaming?. When racing best to use race oil 10W-40, 15W-50 or even SAE40.

Try Rotella 15W-40 with EOS additive, race it 20-30 passes take an oil sample, have it analyzed. Let us know the results.

Hope this helps.


Interesting;

First, my car is strictly drag race, no strret driving.

my bearing clearances, mains .0023, rods .0025. and a darn good machinist to make sure everything is round!!!!
Years ago, 80's and 90's, use to run the big clearances, .0025 to .003 or more, then I used the thicker oils.

With todays clearances and on track oil temps, (less than 200 degrees F,) a multivis x-30 is sufficient and has worked fine for many years now.
I always prefer to buy oil with the correct amount of anti wear additives, and refuse to add additional additives unless absolutely necessary. It can cause more harm than good.

With my current set up, (tighter clearances, thin oil), usually good for 3 - 4 race seasons, tear downs are always 300+ passes. Bottom end usually looks pretty good. One example, 2008 tear down, after 4 years close to 400 passes, and I could have reused my bearings if I wanted to. That was only approx 550 hp motor though.

The point of my OP is not to change anything, rather find a oil with the proper lubricating properties and not have to pay $15 to $17 a liter/quart.
 
Like I said, try Rotella or Esso diesel oil, 15W-40, T5 10W-30, SAE30, SAE40. Run it, have the oil analyzed then you will find whatever has the lowest wear numbers works best. That is the best cheap oil you will find that has enough wear additives, as a base.

I would often talk to racers they would mention things like, "I didn't see any copper in the oil so I should be ok" etc., I would reply "did you get the oil analyzed" "no", you wont see something like 500ppm copper or iron in drained oil, unless the engine is beyond the point of return will you see flakes in the oil. Very few racers understand the use of oil sampling, in OEM its the polar opposite.

I've run ZDDPlus additive and had UOA, it will take a shelf oil and get the zinc/phosphorous to levels you only see in a racing oil. No harm in using this additive.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: CONMCK
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: tig1
We have a member here that has a GM drag car and uses M1 5-30 off the shelf. Problem is I don't remember his screen name.

Yep. For the price it's tough to beat.
Now in all honesty any conventional 5w-30 would be fine since the engine only runs for a few minutes at a time,and you likely drain it after each event.
The common thought is to go thicker but in reality,because your at wide open throttle a good 5w-20 would be ideal. It lessens pumping losses,gets to temp fast and as long as you maintain roughly 10 pounds oil pressure for every 1000 rpms it's more than enough. You may have slightly less oil pressure however you will have more volume,which is really what your after.
I know I will get flamed for this post and by all means go ahead,but the logic behind my reasoning makes sense.


No flame here,
For the last 10 years or so I usually change the filter every 30 passes, change the oil/filter every 60 passes, average about 125 passes a year. I always change oil and filter at the end of the season and store it with fresh. If I start out with a fresh engine I will change it abit more often like 2 or 3 times in the first 20 or so passes, make sure everything is okay and then the normal maint after.

I am abit leery about the 5w-20 vis , my routine is to warm the engine thouroughly at the start of the day, give it a good heat soak. Hot oil, cool water when it is time to race. This is a bracket car, looking for the best consistancy therefore I must start out with hot oil, otherwise as the day progresses, the oil keeps heating and car is harder to keep consistant. (water temps are always within about 5 degrees at the starting line, anyday, anytime!!!!) Right now with 0w-30, hot, I trap at 50 psi, idle at 1200 at approx 20 psi.


Since you have a well-established regimen for managing your oil life, you know how to make your engine last. A suggestion I would make would be to pick an oil with high Viscosity Index to minimize the variation of viscosity due to differing oil temperatures from pass to pass. This may help improve your consistency, which is key in bracket racing. Mobil 1 Racing 0w30 and Redline 0w30 would be good ones to consider.

I have to agree with A_H here.
A high VI oil is what you want.

You haven't mentioned what brand of 0W-30 oil you're running and what is the phosphorus level?
If you want to save money, short of using some [censored] low VI dino, mixing oil is pretty much you're only option. Shell Rotella T5 0W-40 (HTHSV 4.0cP, 185 VI, Phos 1,100 ppm) can usually be had pretty cheaply, under 30 bucks per jug on sale.
The Mobil made Toyota 0W-20 is a high quality synthetic lube with a super high 216 VI and above average AW package and it only costs $5.65/L (I've run this oil in my track car with good results). A 50/50 blend with the Rotella will give you a 200 VI 0W-30 with close to 900 ppm of P (you can't buy an oil with those spec's at any price). If you want a higher P level then buy a bottle of Red Line Break-In Additive to boost the level to whatever you want. One bottle will last for a good number of oil changes.
 
What I was using is no longer available. Esso XD-3 0w-30.
1100 P,
1200 Z,
vis at 100 C (212 F) 12.2,
HTHS 3.5,
VI 176,
GRP IV PAO base stock.
Last time I bought it in 2010 I paid just over $6 a liter.

And of course purchasing so called "race oil" is almost 3X the price.

[A 50/50 blend with the Rotella will give you a 200 VI 0W-30 with close to 900 ppm of P (you can't buy an oil with those spec's at any price)]

I thought mixing oils could cause additive clash?????

[If you want a higher P level then buy a bottle of Red Line Break-In Additive to boost the level to whatever you want. One bottle will last for a good number of oil changes]

I thought adding additives to oil can cause additive clash????

Any truth or an old myth????

The shell T-5 is worth looking at!!!
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: CONMCK
What I was using is no longer available. Esso XD-3 0w-30.


You will now find it as Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0w-30.


yes, but so far I have not been able to confirm what the zinc and phosphate levels are in this oil. Mobil does not list this on their product data sheet where Esso XD-3 did. Esso, who sells the Mobil products says it was reformulated and are not privy to the additives. If somehow I could find out the additive levels and is sufficient, I'll buy it. I know many people who used the XD-3 0w-30 in racing and HP service and were quite satisfied including me. Thanks.
 
One could do a VOA or check with Mobil to see if they'll divulge that information. A rough guess is probably in the neighborhood of 1200 ppm zinc, considering its API certifications.
 
Originally Posted By: CONMCK
What I was using is no longer available. Esso XD-3 0w-30.
1100 P,
1200 Z,
vis at 100 C (212 F) 12.2,
HTHS 3.5,
VI 176,
GRP IV PAO base stock.
Last time I bought it in 2010 I paid just over $6 a liter.

And of course purchasing so called "race oil" is almost 3X the price.

[A 50/50 blend with the Rotella will give you a 200 VI 0W-30 with close to 900 ppm of P (you can't buy an oil with those spec's at any price)]

I thought mixing oils could cause additive clash?????

[If you want a higher P level then buy a bottle of Red Line Break-In Additive to boost the level to whatever you want. One bottle will last for a good number of oil changes]

I thought adding additives to oil can cause additive clash????

Any truth or an old myth????

The shell T-5 is worth looking at!!!

All API oils must be mixable so "additive clash" is not an issue.
The XD-3 0W-30 you're using is a great oil and Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0W-30 is the same oil just rebranded so you can rely on the PDS info you already have.
I would have thought XD-3 would have been heavier than necessary in your drag car since it's almost a 40wt with it's HTHSV of 3.5cP but I guess not if your oil pressure at elevated rev's is down to 50 psi once the oil is hot.

BTW I do prefer the PAO based XD-3 (and it's Mobil replacements, both Delvac Elite 222 0W-30 and Delvac 1 ESP 0W-40)) to Shell Rotella. The only advantage of Rotella is that it is cheaper and more readily available (Cdn Tire and Walmart).
Anyway some of the spec's for the Rotella T5 SJ 0W-40 are:
KV40 85.8cSt
KV100 15cSt
V1 185
TBN 9
HTHSV 4.0cP
Phos 1078 ppm
 
why wouldn't,Valvoline premium blue 15w-40 HD diesel oil. meets tons of specs to much to list. lots of ZDDP. factory fill for cummins diesel , be a good racing oil? seems to do good on the street. ok ok the street is not a good test.
 
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