Downsides of AWD
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Originally Posted by WylieCoyote
They don't realize, until its too late, that AWD does not help you shed that momentum you just gained so easily with AWD. Except a stationary object.
I have a couple of AWD cars, both equipped with premium winter tires, and they are FANTASTIC in the ugly winter stuff we get 6 months of the year.
However ...
I often tell people that all wheel drive just launches you into trouble faster. You can almost always get moving just fine. The all wheel drive sometimes really masks how slippery the roads actually are. And you find out when you go to stop, or turn. And you can't, because you are now going twice as fast as the 2 wheel drive guy.
All wheel drive gets you moving, but TIRES do all the turning and stopping. Seems simple, but so many people just don't get it ...
They don't realize, until its too late, that AWD does not help you shed that momentum you just gained so easily with AWD. Except a stationary object.
I have a couple of AWD cars, both equipped with premium winter tires, and they are FANTASTIC in the ugly winter stuff we get 6 months of the year.
However ...
I often tell people that all wheel drive just launches you into trouble faster. You can almost always get moving just fine. The all wheel drive sometimes really masks how slippery the roads actually are. And you find out when you go to stop, or turn. And you can't, because you are now going twice as fast as the 2 wheel drive guy.
All wheel drive gets you moving, but TIRES do all the turning and stopping. Seems simple, but so many people just don't get it ...
your only going in to the frame, maybe a few inches more, having said that, my GX has an awesome system for deep snow and going up a grade...just today up the 200ft. drive probably a 40' incline with 9-12" and the entry plowed shut even deeper.
Originally Posted by madRiver
A family left a ski area via Toyota GPS in their AWD Sienna which led them to a NH road closed for winter travel(signed) with gate open. It was packed down because it's a snowmobile trail which AWD took them along till they got stuck trying to turn around.
No cell phone signal but the vans SOS button worked for tow which they got found by tow company and NH fish and game.
I wonder if they willl put together a North woods law episode off this one.....
http://wmur.com/article/family-tell...lowing-gps-instructions/30364444?src=app
FWD would have just gotten stuck at start!
Agreed. Similar to the downsides of aging. If you just die when you're 50, the chances of dementia are GREATLY lessened.
A family left a ski area via Toyota GPS in their AWD Sienna which led them to a NH road closed for winter travel(signed) with gate open. It was packed down because it's a snowmobile trail which AWD took them along till they got stuck trying to turn around.
No cell phone signal but the vans SOS button worked for tow which they got found by tow company and NH fish and game.
I wonder if they willl put together a North woods law episode off this one.....
http://wmur.com/article/family-tell...lowing-gps-instructions/30364444?src=app
FWD would have just gotten stuck at start!
Agreed. Similar to the downsides of aging. If you just die when you're 50, the chances of dementia are GREATLY lessened.
Originally Posted by dblshock
your only going in to the frame, maybe a few inches more, having said that, my GX has an awesome system for deep snow and going up a grade...just today up the 200ft. drive probably a 40' incline with 9-12" and the entry plowed shut even deeper.
My driveway is similar. I took my Mazda CX5 (2015) up it after 3" or so of snow on bald tires (2/32 or less, the wear bars were the best part of t he tread left). My 2019 has a much better system programming. I will see how it does if it ever gets out of T-shirt territory this year. Crazy warm! That said, the GX is just a Gucci Landcruiser. It's a monster offroad!
your only going in to the frame, maybe a few inches more, having said that, my GX has an awesome system for deep snow and going up a grade...just today up the 200ft. drive probably a 40' incline with 9-12" and the entry plowed shut even deeper.
My driveway is similar. I took my Mazda CX5 (2015) up it after 3" or so of snow on bald tires (2/32 or less, the wear bars were the best part of t he tread left). My 2019 has a much better system programming. I will see how it does if it ever gets out of T-shirt territory this year. Crazy warm! That said, the GX is just a Gucci Landcruiser. It's a monster offroad!
This kind of topic has been discussed for years.
In the 80's I had a 4wd pickup driving a coworker home in a snow storm. I was doing 30mph. That was fast enough.
Either a TransAm or a Camaro was following me and decided I was too slow. He gunned it to pass on the left. Just as he got past me he lost it and went sideways right into a utility pole.
In the 80's I had a 4wd pickup driving a coworker home in a snow storm. I was doing 30mph. That was fast enough.
Either a TransAm or a Camaro was following me and decided I was too slow. He gunned it to pass on the left. Just as he got past me he lost it and went sideways right into a utility pole.
Originally Posted by madRiver
A family left a ski area via Toyota GPS in their AWD Sienna which led them to a NH road closed for winter travel(signed) with gate open. It was packed down because it's a snowmobile trail which AWD took them along till they got stuck trying to turn around.
No cell phone signal but the vans SOS button worked for tow which they got found by tow company and NH fish and game.
I wonder if they willl put together a North woods law episode off this one.....
http://wmur.com/article/family-tell...lowing-gps-instructions/30364444?src=app
FWD would have just gotten stuck at start!
Something like that happened In Arizona about 20 years ago. (Yes, it snows in Northern Arizona.) Ski Bunny types returning from slopes went down road in snowy weather. DOT came in right behind them and closed the road. This was a paved, state road. Ski Bunnies went off the road and weren't found for four days, badly frostbitten.
Ski Bunnies sued. The public outrage was really sickening. Really misogynistic in my opinion. Expecting the highway patrol to run a sweep after a road closure only seems like common sense.
And yeah, AWD is overrated. I ski every winter weekend with a set of Blizzaks on my F-150 and get along just fine.
A family left a ski area via Toyota GPS in their AWD Sienna which led them to a NH road closed for winter travel(signed) with gate open. It was packed down because it's a snowmobile trail which AWD took them along till they got stuck trying to turn around.
No cell phone signal but the vans SOS button worked for tow which they got found by tow company and NH fish and game.
I wonder if they willl put together a North woods law episode off this one.....
http://wmur.com/article/family-tell...lowing-gps-instructions/30364444?src=app
FWD would have just gotten stuck at start!
Something like that happened In Arizona about 20 years ago. (Yes, it snows in Northern Arizona.) Ski Bunny types returning from slopes went down road in snowy weather. DOT came in right behind them and closed the road. This was a paved, state road. Ski Bunnies went off the road and weren't found for four days, badly frostbitten.
Ski Bunnies sued. The public outrage was really sickening. Really misogynistic in my opinion. Expecting the highway patrol to run a sweep after a road closure only seems like common sense.
And yeah, AWD is overrated. I ski every winter weekend with a set of Blizzaks on my F-150 and get along just fine.
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There are no downsides to a good AWD system, but I write this having owned four Subarus, all of which had real four channel ABS.
A good AWD is pretty invincible in bad winter conditions, or at least that has been our experience.
The only real niggle has been with poor fuel economy with our earlier Subies, but they fixed that by the time we bought our '17 Forster.
A 2WD car on dedicated winters is pretty good and we've tried that with one of our now gone Accords, but it's not in the league of a good AWD car.
A fool driving a vehicle where they have no business going is another matter.
A good AWD is pretty invincible in bad winter conditions, or at least that has been our experience.
The only real niggle has been with poor fuel economy with our earlier Subies, but they fixed that by the time we bought our '17 Forster.
A 2WD car on dedicated winters is pretty good and we've tried that with one of our now gone Accords, but it's not in the league of a good AWD car.
A fool driving a vehicle where they have no business going is another matter.
The ideal would be a Subaru on a set of Blizzaks.
Paying for a high dollar awd to compensate for not having proper snow tires is dumb (Unless you live in a place like Arizona or Las Vegas, where dedicated snow tires for Phoenicians or Las Vegas residents is impractical).
If you need AWD for snow go all the way and get the Blizzaks.
Paying for a high dollar awd to compensate for not having proper snow tires is dumb (Unless you live in a place like Arizona or Las Vegas, where dedicated snow tires for Phoenicians or Las Vegas residents is impractical).
If you need AWD for snow go all the way and get the Blizzaks.
The other thing that is hardly ever mentioned is that a multi-point turn can be a 2 or 3 man job. The driver can't see exactly where the wheels are but a passenger can stand outside and direct the driver. They could have done a 20 or 30 point turn and gotten safely back to the main road.
Of course 1 or 2 passengers would have gotten cold, but I digress.
Of course 1 or 2 passengers would have gotten cold, but I digress.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Delta
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by supton
This is where I kinda like having part time 4WD. It serves to remind me that traction is lacking--I can flip it into 4WD and be forewarned.
Do you have to stop to change into 4WD?
Almost all part time 4wd vehicles in the past decade are shift on the fly for 4wd, my Tacoma for example (and more than likely exactly like Supton's Tundra) you can switch from 2 high to 4 high up to 62mph. Now, why any soul is doing that at speed in bad weather is beyond me. 4wd low requires you to be stopped and transmission in neutral.
Goes back further than that. 1996 Explorer, 1997 Expedition...etc all had shift on the fly 4x4.
Even further than that. Shift-on-the-fly 4wd was available on various makes and models in the 80's.
Before that there were selectable hubs that could be left engaged, then it was just a matter of shifting from 2hi to 4 hi and back at any speed. Of course the front axle and driveshaft were always turning with the hubs engaged, whether 4wd was selected in the T-case providing power to the front axle or not.
Originally Posted by Delta
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by supton
This is where I kinda like having part time 4WD. It serves to remind me that traction is lacking--I can flip it into 4WD and be forewarned.
Do you have to stop to change into 4WD?
Almost all part time 4wd vehicles in the past decade are shift on the fly for 4wd, my Tacoma for example (and more than likely exactly like Supton's Tundra) you can switch from 2 high to 4 high up to 62mph. Now, why any soul is doing that at speed in bad weather is beyond me. 4wd low requires you to be stopped and transmission in neutral.
Goes back further than that. 1996 Explorer, 1997 Expedition...etc all had shift on the fly 4x4.
Even further than that. Shift-on-the-fly 4wd was available on various makes and models in the 80's.
Before that there were selectable hubs that could be left engaged, then it was just a matter of shifting from 2hi to 4 hi and back at any speed. Of course the front axle and driveshaft were always turning with the hubs engaged, whether 4wd was selected in the T-case providing power to the front axle or not.
Originally Posted by madRiver
A family left a ski area via Toyota GPS in their AWD Sienna which led them to a NH road closed for winter travel(signed) with gate open. It was packed down because it's a snowmobile trail which AWD took them along till they got stuck trying to turn around.
No cell phone signal but the vans SOS button worked for tow which they got found by tow company and NH fish and game.
I wonder if they willl put together a North woods law episode off this one.....
http://wmur.com/article/family-tell...lowing-gps-instructions/30364444?src=app
FWD would have just gotten stuck at start!
They need a vehicle like my Bombadier snowcat with it's 7' tracks
A family left a ski area via Toyota GPS in their AWD Sienna which led them to a NH road closed for winter travel(signed) with gate open. It was packed down because it's a snowmobile trail which AWD took them along till they got stuck trying to turn around.
No cell phone signal but the vans SOS button worked for tow which they got found by tow company and NH fish and game.
I wonder if they willl put together a North woods law episode off this one.....
http://wmur.com/article/family-tell...lowing-gps-instructions/30364444?src=app
FWD would have just gotten stuck at start!
They need a vehicle like my Bombadier snowcat with it's 7' tracks
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
I felt kind of stupid yesterday when I decide to snowblow just before dark even though flakes were still coming down and then it started raining as soon as I was done.
I think it actually worked out in my favor as there was less of a mass of slush this morning since I got rid of most of the volume of snow.
I had to park outside as my daughter is home for break and using my garage bay, I tried like heck to get the stuff off the top of my car and could only get about half the depth...the rest was just a frozen matrix of whatever. I ran errands today and it all came off about 45 minutes into my trip when I braked hard...I thought my wipers were going to be ripped off. I didn't want to drive with stuff on the roof, but I spent nearly half an hour with the defrost going full blast and just couldn't make progress...I'm actually glad it ended up on my hood instead of whomever was behind me. Maybe I need a deicing station like the truck yards are supposed to have but never seem to use....
I probably should have but it started a bit after dark and I left it. The bottom layer was quite stuck and I was quite glad to have a plow & paved driveway!
I park my truck outside and had to idle it for half an hour to get the windshield thawed enough to scrape. The top, I cleaned best I could and most of it stayed. Except for what was on the hood, that launched once on the road, I should have checked one more time...
I felt kind of stupid yesterday when I decide to snowblow just before dark even though flakes were still coming down and then it started raining as soon as I was done.
I think it actually worked out in my favor as there was less of a mass of slush this morning since I got rid of most of the volume of snow.
I had to park outside as my daughter is home for break and using my garage bay, I tried like heck to get the stuff off the top of my car and could only get about half the depth...the rest was just a frozen matrix of whatever. I ran errands today and it all came off about 45 minutes into my trip when I braked hard...I thought my wipers were going to be ripped off. I didn't want to drive with stuff on the roof, but I spent nearly half an hour with the defrost going full blast and just couldn't make progress...I'm actually glad it ended up on my hood instead of whomever was behind me. Maybe I need a deicing station like the truck yards are supposed to have but never seem to use....
I probably should have but it started a bit after dark and I left it. The bottom layer was quite stuck and I was quite glad to have a plow & paved driveway!
I park my truck outside and had to idle it for half an hour to get the windshield thawed enough to scrape. The top, I cleaned best I could and most of it stayed. Except for what was on the hood, that launched once on the road, I should have checked one more time...
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Originally Posted by csandste
Negatives of 4WD/AWD
Poorer mileage
More maintenance
Attracts idiots
Subaru's AWD is so thirsty, and no way to turn it off
I'm sure some people use the FWD fuse full-time though
Negatives of 4WD/AWD
Poorer mileage
More maintenance
Attracts idiots
Subaru's AWD is so thirsty, and no way to turn it off
I'm sure some people use the FWD fuse full-time though
Originally Posted by jcartwright99
Glad that made it out safe. However, this is the not the downside of AWD. This would be the downside of not knowing the capability of your vehicle and not knowing the area signage.
I'd say it is the downside of not being able to read a map coupled with slavishly following the gps, which is of course a specific set of problems caused by lack of common sense.
Glad that made it out safe. However, this is the not the downside of AWD. This would be the downside of not knowing the capability of your vehicle and not knowing the area signage.
I'd say it is the downside of not being able to read a map coupled with slavishly following the gps, which is of course a specific set of problems caused by lack of common sense.
I have 2 Explorer 5.0's that are AWD and they are the best handling vehicles in the winter that I've had except maybe my 92 Explorer.
probably just mainly has to do with the weight distribution etc.
but I've driven 4x4's that just don't handle quite as well unless of course you put a lot of weight in the back end where-as my Explorers no additional weight is required.
I've only ever had all-terrain tires on them and they handle just fine, I believe with snow tires they would be even better, but I've never run a highway or all season tire on them.
Most people with AWDs run all-season tires year round which is ok but they still believe they can go through snow like its no big deal, which maybe they can but stopping with an all-season is different.
I first put snow tires on my FWD car last year and as it added more traction I noticed it made a much bigger difference with stopping.
probably just mainly has to do with the weight distribution etc.
but I've driven 4x4's that just don't handle quite as well unless of course you put a lot of weight in the back end where-as my Explorers no additional weight is required.
I've only ever had all-terrain tires on them and they handle just fine, I believe with snow tires they would be even better, but I've never run a highway or all season tire on them.
Most people with AWDs run all-season tires year round which is ok but they still believe they can go through snow like its no big deal, which maybe they can but stopping with an all-season is different.
I first put snow tires on my FWD car last year and as it added more traction I noticed it made a much bigger difference with stopping.
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