Downside of oversize filter

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Fill a filter with oil and take it over to your dining table and turn it over. Nothing should come out by your theory. The Camry has a similar filter angle. That's why I wait to take the filter off and then it doesn't spill oil. Take off right away, oil spills down, they even have like a catch for it. It takes a while especially on a high filter for the oil to drain out through the main bearings. If I drain it all night nothing at all comes out of the filter. It depends on the hole size, viscosity, and the density of the liquid. Try the dining table test. So when the Camry is started every morning cold the center tube has to fill back up. Without any doubt. That's why I never used the long version 3600 on it. Maybe you have the magic engine so tight nothing goes through the parts back to the pan, ever.


I did do the "dining table" test on a PL14459. It sat for a whole week and the oil trapped between the media and can never leaked out the center tube.

Read my first post in this thread where I talk about testing the ADBV: LINK

All I can tell you is that I know for a fact that the center tube doesn't drain on my Tacoma because if I remove the filter even after the truck has been sitting 3~4 days (which I did test out one time) the filter still pukes oil out the center tube. It might depend on the oil galleries geometry is designed on various engines, which could factor in how oil might drain back or not.

But in any case, if the ADBV is not sealing well, it will most likely drain back on both sides of the ADBV. So did you check to see if the space between the media and can was also drained out of your filter? If it was also drained, then the ADBV was probably not sealing 100%.

 

[bbhero]

Old pic here Zee0six?? Is this your truck?? You likely aren't running this type of filter now are you??

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Old pic here Zee0six?? Is this your truck?? You likely aren't running this type of filter now are you??


Yeah, old photo before the Tearolator days. Running an XG3600 Ultra these days.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
... I did do the "dining table" test on a PL14459. It sat for a whole week and the oil trapped between the media and can never leaked out the center tube. ...
But in any case, if the ADBV is not sealing well, it will most likely drain back on both sides of the ADBV. So did you check to see if the space between the media and can was also drained out of your filter? If it was also drained, then the ADBV was probably not sealing 100%.
Purolator L14459 was one of many filter models I used on my Mazda, and I can confirm the space between media and can does not drain, if (and only if) the ADBV is good, even if the filter is off the engine. If it's on an engine, the center tube shouldn't drain out either.

You often can non-destructively drain the space between media and can by interrupting the ADBV seal to allow air in.

 

[goodtimes]

I've had several cars over the years that had base down filters. Ford, Toyota, Nissan. On every one I waited a few hours to overnight to take the filter off. No gush of oil. Take off right away, gush of oil. The dining table test of vacuum holding the center tube oil is to fill the filter with oil, go to the dining table, and turn the filter over. If vacuum holds the oil in the center tube, no problems. It could be very long pipes like on the Tacoma and tight bearings would have the extra surface tension to keep the oil up along with the vacuum. On the cars I had the filters were all on the engine block. On every one of the cars I had, a bigger filter would mean extra time for oil to circulate on a cold start. On the latest car, the 02 camry v6, the oil always drained out of the filter center tube after awhile. Over night wait was a dry filter take off. That's why I did it because it makes a mess below on the cover pans. Not the ADBV part, the center tube part, which is the topic. There is no doubt about it, I saw it every time.

 

[mooferz]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
On the latest car, the 02 camry v6, the oil always drained out of the filter center tube after awhile. Over night wait was a dry filter take off. That's why I did it because it makes a mess below on the cover pans. Not the ADBV part, the center tube part, which is the topic. There is no doubt about it, I saw it every time.

I recommend the Ford Zetec engine filters for the 1MZ-FE on your Camry- IE: Fram 8316 Napa/Wix *1315.
The extra anti-siphon valve prevents much of the oil in the filter from draining out- whether overnight or while spinning off the filter.
Unfortunately it doesn't entirely mitigate the mess of changing the awkwardly sideways oil filter, but it helps quite a bit.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: mooferz
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
On the latest car, the 02 camry v6, the oil always drained out of the filter center tube after awhile. Over night wait was a dry filter take off. That's why I did it because it makes a mess below on the cover pans. Not the ADBV part, the center tube part, which is the topic. There is no doubt about it, I saw it every time.

I recommend the Ford Zetec engine filters for the 1MZ-FE on your Camry- IE: Fram 8316 Napa/Wix *1315.
The extra anti-siphon valve prevents much of the oil in the filter from draining out- whether overnight or while spinning off the filter.
Unfortunately it doesn't entirely mitigate the mess of changing the awkwardly sideways oil filter, but it helps quite a bit.


I don't have the camry anymore. It was my daughters anyway, from me some years ago. At 165000 miles and not seeing any oil use yet it served well. Now I have a 2014 Chevy Volt which is interesting. In two weeks I haven't had the gas engine run. The filters for the Volt are a little confusing. Fram specifies the xg3387a which fits half the GM cars it seems, but Delco and Champ who make the Delco specify a very specific filter for it. I ordered two Luber Finer PH477 from Zoro with other things at 25% off. I may cut one open as it was inexpensive. It has nothing to do with this thread but the Volt's filter appears to be horizontal. So I am in the between world of oil draining or not draining the center tube, sort of like the discussion.

But that was a good tip for v6 camry and sienna owners, thanks. I may look for a used sienna after the dust settles.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
The dining table test of vacuum holding the center tube oil is to fill the filter with oil, go to the dining table, and turn the filter over. If vacuum holds the oil in the center tube, no problems. It could be very long pipes like on the Tacoma and tight bearings would have the extra surface tension to keep the oil up along with the vacuum.


No filter is going to hold oil in the center tube when not on the vehicle because the center tube is open to ATM. The "table test" will tell you however if the ADBV is working 100% like the test I did in the link I gave a few posts ago. There is enough surface tension to keep the oil from seeping through the media and out the open center tube when positioned base down if the ADBV is sealing 100%.

Only way to know if the center tube is still full while on the engine is to take the filter off after the engine has sat for a day or two. In your cases, maybe the whole filter was drained out which would indicate a leaky ADBV. If you didn't verify if the ADBV passed the table test, then you don't really know if the center tube drained out due to a leaky ADBV or not.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Now I have a 2014 Chevy Volt which is interesting. In two weeks I haven't had the gas engine run. The filters for the Volt are a little confusing. Fram specifies the xg3387a which fits half the GM cars it seems, but Delco and Champ who make the Delco specify a very specific filter for it.


What does Wix spec for it?

Originally Posted By: mooferz

I recommend the Ford Zetec engine filters for the 1MZ-FE on your Camry- IE: Fram 8316 Napa/Wix *1315.
The extra anti-siphon valve prevents much of the oil in the filter from draining out- whether overnight or while spinning off the filter.
Unfortunately it doesn't entirely mitigate the mess of changing the awkwardly sideways oil filter, but it helps quite a bit.


More Zetec filters
Fram 8316
Wix *1315
Mann W719/27
Hastings LF483
Mobil M1-211

If you want a wire-backed synthetic filter, Wix XP/Napa Platinum is the only one made for the Zetec.

FWIW, I used to have an ES300 with the 1MZ, and I used the standard filters spec'd for it, and I never had any problems with the correct filter. It isn't too hard to deal with because you can remove/install it from above. It's sideways, but points up.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Now I have a 2014 Chevy Volt which is interesting. In two weeks I haven't had the gas engine run. The filters for the Volt are a little confusing. Fram specifies the xg3387a which fits half the GM cars it seems, but Delco and Champ who make the Delco specify a very specific filter for it.


What does Wix spec for it?

Originally Posted By: mooferz

I recommend the Ford Zetec engine filters for the 1MZ-FE on your Camry- IE: Fram 8316 Napa/Wix *1315.
The extra anti-siphon valve prevents much of the oil in the filter from draining out- whether overnight or while spinning off the filter.
Unfortunately it doesn't entirely mitigate the mess of changing the awkwardly sideways oil filter, but it helps quite a bit.


More Zetec filters
Fram 8316
Wix *1315
Mann W719/27
Hastings LF483
Mobil M1-211

If you want a wire-backed synthetic filter, Wix XP/Napa Platinum is the only one made for the Zetec.

FWIW, I used to have an ES300 with the 1MZ, and I used the standard filters spec'd for it, and I never had any problems with the correct filter. It isn't too hard to deal with because you can remove/install it from above. It's sideways, but points up.


The Wix for a Volt is 57143, pretty specific for it. I can't figure out why. I hadn't checked them. Baldwin has nothing specific for a Volt. The Luber Finer ph477 states full synthetic media however. The part I don't understand is Fram seems to be the only one who specs a common GM filter xg3387a, so I can stir the pot by saying they aren't as comprehensive as Wix or Champ labs. Baldwin at least says nothing available.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
The Wix for a Volt is 57143, pretty specific for it. I can't figure out why. I hadn't checked them. Baldwin has nothing specific for a Volt. The Luber Finer ph477 states full synthetic media however. The part I don't understand is Fram seems to be the only one who specs a common GM filter xg3387a, so I can stir the pot by saying they aren't as comprehensive as Wix or Champ labs. Baldwin at least says nothing available.


Just looking them up now, checking out Rock Auto's selection for the Volt, and it seems Hastings has a Volt-specific filter, the LF652, so it's surprising Baldwin doesn't have one

The good news is that there are many good filters for the Volt. Mann, Mahle, Hastings, and Wix!

BTW, the Delco filter for the Volt is not a Champ. The PF65 is Mahle

Still strange that Fram doesn't make a Volt-specific filter! Email Motorking and ask why. Even some of cheap Chinese jobbers have their own filters for the Volt!

 

[goodtimes]

Thanks for info. actually more choices than I can count and not a reason or way to oversize on this engine. Just to keep on topic. Probably the OE Mahle by Delco is a good choice later on. I almost never heard of Luber Finer and they sell a filter made almost specifically for this car, sort of strange Fram does not.

 

[rrounds]

The '14 Volt has 18 X 1.5 thread oil filter and the newer Volts have 22 X 1.5 thread oil filters. The '16 Volt takes a Wix 57060 oil filter. Baldwin makes a filter(B160) for the newer Volt's but not the older ones.

ROD

 

[goodtimes]

This member did a write up on his 14 Volt filter which came with a PF65. The engine is German design but made in Michigan, so gets a Delco filter. The OE filter has no adbv. He went with a Fram xg3387a which fits so many old cars like AMC, maybe some Studebakers. It will be interesting if the Luber Finer PH477 I ordered for under $5 actually has full synthetic media as they say. Off the thread topic I realize.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3837297/1

 

[rrounds]

One could get a thread adapter like this made
http://rjcracing.com/product/oil-filter-adapter/
Go from a M18X1.5 to M20 or M22X1.5 so you could run a larger oil filter if you have the room for one.

ROD

 

[slybunda]

my fiesta is a zetec engine and i use the xg3600 filter on it. same filter fits the celica too. its handy having the same filter for both cars.

 

[wag123]

Are you sure the noise you are hearing isn't piston slap? Toyota's 4.0L and 3.5L V/6 engines are known for having a cold start piston slap noise. Although they don't ALL have the noise to the same extent, it is considered normal and is nothing to be concerned about. With proper regular maintenance and no abuse they will still run for over 300k miles without a problem.

 

[DrRoughneck]

Turns out I had dripped some oil on the serpentine belt when replacing the base-down filter, causing the belt to slip and whistle. Now all is clean and quiet.

Back to my original question, it seems that within a reasonable 5K OCI, oversized filters have no real advantage. In fact on a base-down filter, oversize filters may cause longer dry starts as the center tube takes longer to fill.