My 09 Accord is generally at 40-50% life when I change the oil between 6000-7000 miles. If I went to 15%, I'd assume it would be in the 10000-11000 miles.
Doubts About Honda Maintenance Minder System
- Thread starter The Critic
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We seem to be missing The Critics point. Regarding the Fit only, he thinks that whether the miles are "severe service" or "normal service" the OLM recommends the same OCI regardless, which goes against everything we yack about here.
Maybe your friend's driving habits are different than what he tells you??????
Maybe your friend's driving habits are different than what he tells you??????
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I'd trust the MM. As far as enthusiast being able to disregard, I disagree. If anything, I'd use a better oil and extend PAST the MM-indicated interval based on UOA. However, to save time and money, I'd probably find a cheap(er) oil, send out the first sample after a winter run and never worry about it again.
Time and money are things people on this forum seem to have lots of, judging by the unnecessary maintenance some people do.
I'd trust the MM. As far as enthusiast being able to disregard, I disagree. If anything, I'd use a better oil and extend PAST the MM-indicated interval based on UOA. However, to save time and money, I'd probably find a cheap(er) oil, send out the first sample after a winter run and never worry about it again.
Time and money are things people on this forum seem to have lots of, judging by the unnecessary maintenance some people do.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I have my friend's 2009 Fit here and it has been more than 4500 miles since the last oil change and the Oil Life Percentage is still at 70%. More than 1/2 of the miles are from short, low-speed 3-5 mile trips with the remaining from two long trips.
From what I have read on the Fit forums, it seems that most drivers are getting around 10k between a service. On other Honda models with the Maintenance Minder system, you would see a much wider range of intervals-- but not so with the Fit. It makes you wonder if the algorithm used on the Fit's Maintenance Minder is less sophisticated than the one on other models. Here is a thread that sort of discusses this.
So, either I am dreaming or there is something very different about the Maintenance Minder on the 2nd Generation Fit. Thoughts on this subject?
Perhaps the assumption is that short trips are rough on oil is the one to be questioned.
My thought on the Honda FiT MM as well as the GM one, is despite the claims that the system measures a whole list of operating variables, the measurements really nets out to the much simpler measurement of amount of fuel consumed.
We are giving too much credit to these claims that they measure so many variables that it is "smart".
Since the short trips don't really affect fuel consumed, that's why the MM isn't that different or that th algorithm is set up so these other variables can have weighting high enough to overcome the fuel consumption measure.
If the engineers include a good enough "buffer" factor to account for the worst case of short trips, the monitor measuring just this single variable of fuel consumption will still provide a "change oil" message before the oil is used up and keep the consumer out of trouble.
I have my friend's 2009 Fit here and it has been more than 4500 miles since the last oil change and the Oil Life Percentage is still at 70%. More than 1/2 of the miles are from short, low-speed 3-5 mile trips with the remaining from two long trips.
From what I have read on the Fit forums, it seems that most drivers are getting around 10k between a service. On other Honda models with the Maintenance Minder system, you would see a much wider range of intervals-- but not so with the Fit. It makes you wonder if the algorithm used on the Fit's Maintenance Minder is less sophisticated than the one on other models. Here is a thread that sort of discusses this.
So, either I am dreaming or there is something very different about the Maintenance Minder on the 2nd Generation Fit. Thoughts on this subject?
Perhaps the assumption is that short trips are rough on oil is the one to be questioned.
My thought on the Honda FiT MM as well as the GM one, is despite the claims that the system measures a whole list of operating variables, the measurements really nets out to the much simpler measurement of amount of fuel consumed.
We are giving too much credit to these claims that they measure so many variables that it is "smart".
Since the short trips don't really affect fuel consumed, that's why the MM isn't that different or that th algorithm is set up so these other variables can have weighting high enough to overcome the fuel consumption measure.
If the engineers include a good enough "buffer" factor to account for the worst case of short trips, the monitor measuring just this single variable of fuel consumption will still provide a "change oil" message before the oil is used up and keep the consumer out of trouble.
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Originally Posted By: JOD
demarpaint said:I know people seem to love the MM system and think it is perfectly calibrated. GM has to reprogram them for DI which indicates they aren't perfect.
Originally Posted By: JOD
It seems lots of folks are wrapping themselves around the re-calibration of the OLM for DI vehicles as an indication that an OLM isn't accurate. I just don't see it that way. It has absolutely nothing to to with the OLM malfunctioning--they're simply changing the recommended interval. That's an issue with the engine and how it's treating the oil, not the OLM. I don't really see how that's relevant the the engine in a Honda Fit...
GM seemed to think using the same programming for the OLM in the DI engine was the ticket, it wasn't. You're correct it has nothing to do with the OLM, the OLM reacts as it is programmed, if programmed wrong as in the DI example then it is wrong for the application and can cause engine damage.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
As ddt004 said, if you feel the need to change the oil early your probably do.
Originally Posted By: JOD
I couldn't disagree more. The entire used oil analysis forum is littered with people who "felt" they needed to change their oil. Almost universally, these folks changed it earlier than necessary. I think I'd rather go with a system which actually calculates the variables with contribute to oil degradation than go on feelings....
Too many people think used oil analysis reports are Gospel, they aren't, in fact far from it. Visit the used oil analysis site and see how many are wrong, or had to be corrected. How about the respected member that blew up an engine and had a perfect used oil analysis report? Or engines loaded with sludge that have good reports. used oil analysis reports are a tool, far from perfect.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Cars got by for decades w/o a MM system. It is probably great for people who tend to need a poke to service their cars, car buffs don't need it IMO.
Originally Posted By: JOD
I would humbly suggest that many "car buffs" need it, since they're changing the oil more often than necessary, and are just recreational oil changers. It seems the folks who have it figured out are the ones following the OLM's... Sure, people got by for decades without one. You don't *need* one, but it does help people determine the most accurate oil change interval for their driving conditions. It's a lot more precise than time or mileage.
See my comments above. People who are lazy or neglect cars need the system more than someone who frequents this board. Most people here know how to care for a car and don't need an OLM to tell them when to change oil.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
A great way to test yours [if you're willing to gamble] is to run it to lets say 10% and get a used oil analysis. It could be spot on, and the only way "you'll" know for sure. JMO
Originally Posted By: JOD
I agree it's a great way to confirm that the OLM works, but I'd hardly consider it a "gamble". There are several Honda Fit used oil analysis (and used oil analysis from other cars usign OLM's) from folks using the OLM/MM as a guide, and I'm just not seeing any of them where the oil isn't suitable for use based on OLM/MM-recommended intervals.
We almost agree. If the report comes back with high fuel dilution or low TBN then it was a gamble..If it comes back good, then follow the OLM.
The Honda's i have done (mostly 3.5 V6) that have followed the OLM or even OCI before the monitor alerted had issues with varnish and deposit build up.
The OLM doesn't seem to take a lot into account when determining the OCI.Nothing more than an observation from my own experiences.
The ones in GM vehicles seem more realistic.My old deville N* would drop to 20% pretty quick driving in town.
The OLM doesn't seem to take a lot into account when determining the OCI.Nothing more than an observation from my own experiences.
The ones in GM vehicles seem more realistic.My old deville N* would drop to 20% pretty quick driving in town.
just an add-on to the above,
I think the crux is that the MM is not able to detect the situation on continual short trips.
Short trips by themselves are not inherently bad, it's only when there are continuous short trips without a long trips where it may stack up.
As the MM doesn't have such a memory, I don't think it can account for that particular scenario.
I think the crux is that the MM is not able to detect the situation on continual short trips.
Short trips by themselves are not inherently bad, it's only when there are continuous short trips without a long trips where it may stack up.
As the MM doesn't have such a memory, I don't think it can account for that particular scenario.
For most 4-cylinder Honda's in passenger cars, that are in proper working order, especially a Honda Fit as in this example, seem fully capable of extended OCIs.
There is a year when the Fit went from a less sophisticated MM to one that took more into account. I have a friend that has used Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w-20, perhaps Mobil 1 Extended Performance, and currently Amsoil ASM 0w-20 and he basically goes by his MM around 7,000-9,000 range or so. On Amsoil currently he's trying to safely go 1 year or 15,000. I advised that he should get to 10,000; being sure to monitor for a chance to top off during the interval of course, and get a used oil analysis performed.
This old thing I drive around has reminders to change the oil by 7,500 miles stickered in some places with no mention of the 3,000(3,750 more specifically) severe service concern and that was with SG rated conventional, and as another poster mentioned the SAME oil filter for 2 intervals.
If a Fit isn't easy on oil I don't know what is. I can understand healthy concern, and if one needs sanity cap it at 7,500 on a good synthetic. Otherwise, I think the MM can be worked with and 10,000 is doable if you aren't racing(track days/off-roading etc), don't have any problems arise(water pump, radiator hose etc) and in general aren't falling into a bad category of severe service where all of the driving is severe.
I don't really know what else to say, but most of the Fit used oil analysis we've seen here are superb.
There is a year when the Fit went from a less sophisticated MM to one that took more into account. I have a friend that has used Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w-20, perhaps Mobil 1 Extended Performance, and currently Amsoil ASM 0w-20 and he basically goes by his MM around 7,000-9,000 range or so. On Amsoil currently he's trying to safely go 1 year or 15,000. I advised that he should get to 10,000; being sure to monitor for a chance to top off during the interval of course, and get a used oil analysis performed.
This old thing I drive around has reminders to change the oil by 7,500 miles stickered in some places with no mention of the 3,000(3,750 more specifically) severe service concern and that was with SG rated conventional, and as another poster mentioned the SAME oil filter for 2 intervals.
If a Fit isn't easy on oil I don't know what is. I can understand healthy concern, and if one needs sanity cap it at 7,500 on a good synthetic. Otherwise, I think the MM can be worked with and 10,000 is doable if you aren't racing(track days/off-roading etc), don't have any problems arise(water pump, radiator hose etc) and in general aren't falling into a bad category of severe service where all of the driving is severe.
I don't really know what else to say, but most of the Fit used oil analysis we've seen here are superb.
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