Don't underestimate the 410.

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Originally Posted By: 1989outlaw
.410 slugs are effective close range fodder , If they are not , then .45 LC and .45 acp are not either ..


It's not the caliber, (.410). It's the gimmick guns they're chambered in.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: 1989outlaw
.410 slugs are effective close range fodder , If they are not , then .45 LC and .45 acp are not either ..


It's not the caliber, (.410). It's the gimmick guns they're chambered in.


The .410 works a lot better out of the long barrel for which it was designed, not the revolver being discussed in this thread.

And no handgun comes even close to the effectiveness/power of a long gun.

So, while .45LC is a decent pistol round, its performance varies considerably with loading (cowboy action vs. +P) and even in the best load, it's got a fraction of the energy of, say, a 5.56 carbine...
 
Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
What is the "45 LC" you all speak of?
45 Long Colt I would guess.


None of my books have a reference to any such caliber.
 
I'm quite familiar with the caliber "45 Colt", which I've shot and reloaded extensively, but I'm still trying to find this "45 Long Colt" that people keep talking about.

BTW, the article to which you linked refers to "45 Colt" and not the non-existent "45 Long Colt"
 
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Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
I'm quite familiar with the caliber "45 Colt", which I've shot and reloaded extensively, but I'm still trying to find this "45 Long Colt" that people keep talking about.

BTW, the article to which you linked refers to "45 Colt" and not the non-existent "45 Long Colt"


You obviously didn't actually read the linked article then.

Originally Posted By: Wikipedia
It is sometimes referred to as .45 Long Colt or .45LC, to differentiate it from the shorter .45 S&W Schofield, as both were used by the Army at the same period of time prior to the adoption of the M1887 Govt.[1]
 
Find me a "45 Short Colt" and we might have a reason to call it the "45 Long Colt." The 45 S&W Schofield is a distinctly different round.

As it is, "45 Long Colt" is still incorrect regardless of how many people refer to it as such.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Seriously, a .410 is for girls. Great for snakes, not for people. Get someone mad, full of rage attacking. I want something bigger than a .410.


If you see a guy shooting trap/skeet well with a .410, you know he's a master. Most people use a 12ga, but the pros will use a 20ga or even a .410.

It's all about horses for courses...
The guy using a .410 for trap/skeet is doing so to intentionally handicap himself. Something no one would do in a gunfight except in the movies. When dealing with HD shotguns there is no reason at all to pick a .410 over a 20 or 12. The only reason .410 get kicked around is because of gimmick guns that use it.


I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. Your first sentence actually covers it... and I actually agree with the rest of what you said. That's why I said "horses for courses". I only brought it up because Panzerman said that .410's are for girls- which they're not just for girls. Depending on the setting, they are used by highly skilled guys too.
 
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
Find me a "45 Short Colt" and we might have a reason to call it the "45 Long Colt." The 45 S&W Schofield is a distinctly different round.

As it is, "45 Long Colt" is still incorrect regardless of how many people refer to it as such.
There was actually a shorter version made back in the day. .45 Colt Government.
 
This whole 45LC vs 45 Colt is splitting hairs. It was referred to 45 Long Colt because the Army used the 45 Schofield at the same time. So 45 long colt was just a way to differentiate it from the S&W round being used at the same time. The name has largely stuck.

Of course even gunmakers sometimes called the same cartridge by different names. The 38 S&W was called the 38 Colt New Police essentially because no one at Colt wanted "S&W" stamped on their revolvers. Marlin did not want to stamp 30 W.C.F on their lever guns so they came up with 30-30.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
Find me a "45 Short Colt" and we might have a reason to call it the "45 Long Colt." The 45 S&W Schofield is a distinctly different round.

As it is, "45 Long Colt" is still incorrect regardless of how many people refer to it as such.
There was actually a shorter version made back in the day. .45 Colt Government.



You are talking about the 1887 round that melded the 45 schofield and 45 colt into a unique round that would fire and eject well in both the S&W and Colt guns. It was esssentially a "short colt" of sorts produced by Frankford arsenal and was used until the Single Action Army and S&W wheel guns were replaced by the Colt New Army chambered in 38 LC.
 
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
I'm quite familiar with the caliber "45 Colt", which I've shot and reloaded extensively, but I'm still trying to find this "45 Long Colt" that people keep talking about.

BTW, the article to which you linked refers to "45 Colt" and not the non-existent "45 Long Colt"


Since you want to engage in hair splitting and pedantry...here's a quote from a reputable source and you don't even have to look it up:

"The .45 Colt (metric designation: 11.48×35mmR) cartridge is a handgun cartridge dating to 1872. It began as a black-powder revolver round developed for the Colt Single Action Army revolver, but is also offered as a magnum-level, handgun hunting round in modern usage. This cartridge was adopted by the U.S. Army in 1873 and served as an official US military handgun cartridge for 14 years. It is sometimes referred to as .45 Long Colt or .45LC, to differentiate it from the shorter .45 S&W Schofield, as both were used by the Army at the same period of time prior to the adoption of the M1887 Govt."

It's a legitimate vernacular cartridge description.

I'm sorry you've not heard of it before, but the use of that particular description has no relevance on the thread, or the discussion contained in the thread.

So...what's your point?....you trolling?
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
I'm quite familiar with the caliber "45 Colt", which I've shot and reloaded extensively, but I'm still trying to find this "45 Long Colt" that people keep talking about.

BTW, the article to which you linked refers to "45 Colt" and not the non-existent "45 Long Colt"


Since you want to engage in hair splitting and pedantry...here's a quote from a reputable source and you don't even have to look it up:

"The .45 Colt (metric designation: 11.48×35mmR) cartridge is a handgun cartridge dating to 1872. It began as a black-powder revolver round developed for the Colt Single Action Army revolver, but is also offered as a magnum-level, handgun hunting round in modern usage. This cartridge was adopted by the U.S. Army in 1873 and served as an official US military handgun cartridge for 14 years. It is sometimes referred to as .45 Long Colt or .45LC, to differentiate it from the shorter .45 S&W Schofield, as both were used by the Army at the same period of time prior to the adoption of the M1887 Govt."

It's a legitimate vernacular cartridge description.

I'm sorry you've not heard of it before, but the use of that particular description has no relevance on the thread, or the discussion contained in the thread.

So...what's your point?....you trolling?


Care to share the name of that "reputable source"?

And, yes, I am being pedantic but gun owners often lay into politicians about not getting our terminology right. I'm being equally particular about an incorrect name that makes me squirm inside and always has.
 
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
I'm quite familiar with the caliber "45 Colt", which I've shot and reloaded extensively, but I'm still trying to find this "45 Long Colt" that people keep talking about.

BTW, the article to which you linked refers to "45 Colt" and not the non-existent "45 Long Colt"


Since you want to engage in hair splitting and pedantry...here's a quote from a reputable source and you don't even have to look it up:

"The .45 Colt (metric designation: 11.48×35mmR) cartridge is a handgun cartridge dating to 1872. It began as a black-powder revolver round developed for the Colt Single Action Army revolver, but is also offered as a magnum-level, handgun hunting round in modern usage. This cartridge was adopted by the U.S. Army in 1873 and served as an official US military handgun cartridge for 14 years. It is sometimes referred to as .45 Long Colt or .45LC, to differentiate it from the shorter .45 S&W Schofield, as both were used by the Army at the same period of time prior to the adoption of the M1887 Govt."

It's a legitimate vernacular cartridge description.

I'm sorry you've not heard of it before, but the use of that particular description has no relevance on the thread, or the discussion contained in the thread.

So...what's your point?....you trolling?


Care to share the name of that "reputable source"?

And, yes, I am being pedantic but gun owners often lay into politicians about not getting our terminology right. I'm being equally particular about an incorrect name that makes me squirm inside and always has.



Here is the source listed in the article he got his information from

Shideler, Dan. The Official Gun Digest Book of Guns & Prices. 2011 Edition
 
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Wikipedia.

I've always heard it referred to as "Long Colt"

It's vernacular...a local/cultural preference for nomenclature. A convention.

You may not like it (and I think we already knew that), but that doesn't make it incorrect.
 
Originally Posted By: GeorgeKaplan
I don't mean to pile on bunn but the .45 Colt is almost ALWAYS referred to as .45LC or Long Colt.


As I said, I've been shooting and reloading this caliber for years.

I don't have a loading manual that refers to it as "Long Colt". I don't have a piece of brass that says anything other than "45 Colt"-I have brass old enough to say "UMC" and "Western", along with Starline made in the latter part of last year and all are marked 45 Colt. I don't have a gun that shoots it stamped anything other than "45 Colt." Every box of ammo I've ever bought has said "45 Colt."

Saying "Almost always" is definitely a huge stretch, especially among all the folks I interact with that actively shoot the caliber.
 
By the way, this below is taken from "Catridges of the World, 11th Edition."

This is considered one of the most authoritative sources on cartridge history around.

Quote:
.45 Colt Historical Notes: This was introduced, in 1873, by Colt’s as one of the cartridges for its famous Peacemaker single-action revolver. Both the cartridge and the revolver were adopted by the U.S. Army, in 1875. This served as the official handgun cartridge of the Army, until 1892 (some 17 years), when it was replaced by the .38 Long Colt. The .45 Colt is one of the cartridges that helped civilize and settle the American West. It was originally a blackpowder number, loaded with 40 grains of FFg powder and a 255-grain lead bullet. Testing has demonstrated that muzzle velocity of the original loading almost certainly exceeded 900 fps in the original revolvers. Various importers offer excellent Italian-made replicas of the original Colt’s model, and Ruger and several other makes of more modern single-action revolvers are currently chambered in .45 Colt.


General Comments: This is one of the most famous American handgun cartridges and still a favorite with big-bore advocates. It is extremely accurate and has more knockdown and stopping power than nearly any common handgun cartridge, except the .44 Magnum. It is a popular field cartridge and can be safely handloaded to velocities in excess of 1000 fps with 250-grain than about 800 fps muzzle velocity. Although the .45 Colt has a larger case than the .45 Automatic or the .45 Auto-Rim, it is not quite as efficient with factory-duplicating loads using smokeless powder. Using special revolvers, some very heavy loads have been established for the .45 Colt case. These put it in almost the same class as the .44 Magnum. Such loads should not be attempted except by an experienced person who fully understands what he is doing and who will ensure that those loads are only used in a revolver that will withstand the pressures generated. This is another cartridge that has developed a rebirth of interest. Federal, Remington, Winchester, Black Hills Ammunition, CorBon, and others all offer .45 Colt loads.


Barnes, Frank C. (2012-09-07). Cartridges of the World: A Complete Illustrated Reference for More Than 1,500 Cartridges (Kindle Locations 11115-11120). Gun Digest Books. Kindle Edition.
 
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