So I understand the whole manufacture's warranty pitch. But putting that aside I'd like to ask if the specific spec of the oil really matters? I can't really imagine manufacturers reinventing the wheel when it comes to producing a vehicle. For instance I have a land rover discovery diesel. It's the same engine in the F150. Land Rover has their own spec but is it really any different or just a stamp that says this oil meets a certain requirement which so many others would? For instance there's no amsoil for my engine but it's always held in high regard. Did the manufacturer just make a spec that's impossible to find or would most full synthetic oils be perfectly fine? I'm just wondering how much is a sales pitch. I find it hard to believe that the best oils out there for my engine are a bunch of no names.
Does oil spec really matter?
- Thread starter FlyingTexan
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Can, but not necessarily.
The bottom end of the GM family is probably a lot cheaper than your Discovery.
Many GM engines but not all legitimately require Dexos. GM dealers don't want to stock multiple oils, so everybody gets the Dexos spec whether they need it or not. Brings people to the dealer, generates licensing fees. What's not to like if you're GM? I imagine the same thing would apply with Land Rover. I guess my question would be is there warranty considerations to consider?
The bottom end of the GM family is probably a lot cheaper than your Discovery.
Many GM engines but not all legitimately require Dexos. GM dealers don't want to stock multiple oils, so everybody gets the Dexos spec whether they need it or not. Brings people to the dealer, generates licensing fees. What's not to like if you're GM? I imagine the same thing would apply with Land Rover. I guess my question would be is there warranty considerations to consider?
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Is LR engine completely the same as that from F150? I doubt that usa F150 has dpf filter installed?
If you have DPF filter(s) in your LR then you have to go "low saps" way...
Vw504/507 is the toughtes norm to achieve...but is not as fuel conserving as up to date norms (it is 5w30 instead of 0w20 nowadays)
So if you are not fan of today thin oils standards...you can look after oils with standards as vw504/507... Bmw LL-04 MB 229.51 ACEA C3/C4
If you want thin "low saps" versions....vw 508/509...bmw ll-12fe or - 14+fe...ACEA C1/C2...
No other standard in auto industry can beat vw/bmw/MB combo of approvals...
If you have DPF filter(s) in your LR then you have to go "low saps" way...
Vw504/507 is the toughtes norm to achieve...but is not as fuel conserving as up to date norms (it is 5w30 instead of 0w20 nowadays)
So if you are not fan of today thin oils standards...you can look after oils with standards as vw504/507... Bmw LL-04 MB 229.51 ACEA C3/C4
If you want thin "low saps" versions....vw 508/509...bmw ll-12fe or - 14+fe...ACEA C1/C2...
No other standard in auto industry can beat vw/bmw/MB combo of approvals...
Originally Posted by FlyingTexan
So I understand the whole manufacture's warranty pitch. But putting that aside I'd like to ask if the specific spec of the oil really matters? I can't really imagine manufacturers reinventing the wheel when it comes to producing a vehicle. For instance I have a land rover discovery diesel. It's the same engine in the F150. Land Rover has their own spec but is it really any different or just a stamp that says this oil meets a certain requirement which so many others would? For instance there's no amsoil for my engine but it's always held in high regard. Did the manufacturer just make a spec that's impossible to find or would most full synthetic oils be perfectly fine? I'm just wondering how much is a sales pitch. I find it hard to believe that the best oils out there for my engine are a bunch of no names.
It's a matter of supply and demand. If there's low demand for the spec then oil companies won't spend the $$ to get their oil certified. OE specs do matter THOUGH because for example almost all of them entail long drain intervals. So they have to protect themselves from the customer who thinks they can run conventional for 10k miles.
So I understand the whole manufacture's warranty pitch. But putting that aside I'd like to ask if the specific spec of the oil really matters? I can't really imagine manufacturers reinventing the wheel when it comes to producing a vehicle. For instance I have a land rover discovery diesel. It's the same engine in the F150. Land Rover has their own spec but is it really any different or just a stamp that says this oil meets a certain requirement which so many others would? For instance there's no amsoil for my engine but it's always held in high regard. Did the manufacturer just make a spec that's impossible to find or would most full synthetic oils be perfectly fine? I'm just wondering how much is a sales pitch. I find it hard to believe that the best oils out there for my engine are a bunch of no names.
It's a matter of supply and demand. If there's low demand for the spec then oil companies won't spend the $$ to get their oil certified. OE specs do matter THOUGH because for example almost all of them entail long drain intervals. So they have to protect themselves from the customer who thinks they can run conventional for 10k miles.
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Depends on the engine totally.
A 2012 elantra with port fuel injection.. any 0w20 to 20w50 in that thing (climate permitting)
some work better than others.
a 2019 turbo gdi 1.5L GM product.. definitely needs api SN+ or dexos 1 gen2
my 2019 jeep cherokee with 2.0T requires Chrysler ms-13340 spec
I wouldnt lose a wink of sleep using api sn+/dexos 1 gen 2 5w30 in it.
A 2012 elantra with port fuel injection.. any 0w20 to 20w50 in that thing (climate permitting)
some work better than others.
a 2019 turbo gdi 1.5L GM product.. definitely needs api SN+ or dexos 1 gen2
my 2019 jeep cherokee with 2.0T requires Chrysler ms-13340 spec
I wouldnt lose a wink of sleep using api sn+/dexos 1 gen 2 5w30 in it.
Worth repeating...
Originally Posted by MCompact
I use an oil that meets the manufacturer's specs. It's not worth worrying over.
Originally Posted by MCompact
I use an oil that meets the manufacturer's specs. It's not worth worrying over.
Originally Posted by MCompact
I use an oil that meets the manufacturer's specs. It's not worth worrying over.
I feel the spec is the only thing that matters.
Case in point for my GTI...VW 502 00. The oil is available in 0w-30, 5w30; 0w-40 and 5w-40. Looking at the specs of the different oils show they are just above and below 12.5cSt that delineates the grades so it doesn't matter what grade I use. I find an oil that meets the spec(and maybe higher, like MB 229.5), and what I want to spend. Once that's met I sleep easy and drive on.
Originally Posted by MCompact
I use an oil that meets the manufacturer's specs. It's not worth worrying over.
Originally Posted by MCompact
I use an oil that meets the manufacturer's specs. It's not worth worrying over.
Originally Posted by MCompact
I use an oil that meets the manufacturer's specs. It's not worth worrying over.
I feel the spec is the only thing that matters.
Case in point for my GTI...VW 502 00. The oil is available in 0w-30, 5w30; 0w-40 and 5w-40. Looking at the specs of the different oils show they are just above and below 12.5cSt that delineates the grades so it doesn't matter what grade I use. I find an oil that meets the spec(and maybe higher, like MB 229.5), and what I want to spend. Once that's met I sleep easy and drive on.
Originally Posted by LotI
Worth repeating...
Originally Posted by MCompact
I use an oil that meets the manufacturer's specs. It's not worth worrying over.
Originally Posted by MCompact
I use an oil that meets the manufacturer's specs. It's not worth worrying over.
Originally Posted by MCompact
I use an oil that meets the manufacturer's specs. It's not worth worrying over.
I feel the spec is the only thing that matters.
Case in point for my GTI... I find an oil that meets the spec( and maybe higher, like MB 229.5 ),
Blah blah blah (btw that is NOT wort repeating)....@ the end you just use THE BEST OIL that you can get on your market and wich surpasses those basic vw specs you need for your vw GTI
Btw...btw I feel sorry for my Yaris...but that is the oil my friend had it in his garage when we were changing oil in it...next time I will put in vw504/507 oil...because it is the best oil by the standard for my DPF equiped Yaris
Worth repeating...
Originally Posted by MCompact
I use an oil that meets the manufacturer's specs. It's not worth worrying over.
Originally Posted by MCompact
I use an oil that meets the manufacturer's specs. It's not worth worrying over.
Originally Posted by MCompact
I use an oil that meets the manufacturer's specs. It's not worth worrying over.
I feel the spec is the only thing that matters.
Case in point for my GTI... I find an oil that meets the spec( and maybe higher, like MB 229.5 ),
Blah blah blah (btw that is NOT wort repeating)....@ the end you just use THE BEST OIL that you can get on your market and wich surpasses those basic vw specs you need for your vw GTI
Btw...btw I feel sorry for my Yaris...but that is the oil my friend had it in his garage when we were changing oil in it...next time I will put in vw504/507 oil...because it is the best oil by the standard for my DPF equiped Yaris
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Kind of a crazy question to ask here ! I remember a post from a member who scolded the store clerk/manager/owner at a gas station/convenience store because they were selling engine oil that only met an older spec. Mind you, this oil was perfectly fine for vehicles that were a few years old. And if someone added a quart or two to their brand new car that "requires" a newer spec, well, this oil is better than not-enough oil !
I seem to recall that this person/poster even went back to the store to "check" after the store said they'd do something about it ... and it was still on the shelf !!
I seem to recall that this person/poster even went back to the store to "check" after the store said they'd do something about it ... and it was still on the shelf !!
The easiest way is to just buy an older American car with an engine that's not TGDI/GDI, and literally any oil on the shelf at Walmart meets everything that engine needs. Just pick the correct viscosity!
I like Lotl's line of thinking though, and so what I've kinda been doing is find an oil that's ACEA A3/B4 and API SM/SN, and run it in everything. If it happens to meet BMW LL-01, MB 229.5, or some of the tighter Euro specs, all the better. A couple of the "all-vehicle" oils I have picked up recently are: Ravenol DXG, Castrol Edge 5w30 A3/B4, Delo XLE 10W30, and Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0w40. I'll run any of those in any vehicle I own, and have done so, for the most part. Why? Because I can, and it makes me happy.
I like Lotl's line of thinking though, and so what I've kinda been doing is find an oil that's ACEA A3/B4 and API SM/SN, and run it in everything. If it happens to meet BMW LL-01, MB 229.5, or some of the tighter Euro specs, all the better. A couple of the "all-vehicle" oils I have picked up recently are: Ravenol DXG, Castrol Edge 5w30 A3/B4, Delo XLE 10W30, and Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0w40. I'll run any of those in any vehicle I own, and have done so, for the most part. Why? Because I can, and it makes me happy.
Again, this is a talk about standards nothing to do with warranty or whatever else.
Taking a brand like Land Rover which is small by volume and has their own spec oil. If you were to, for example, test multiple other oils would there be several that meet the LR spec and just weren't certified?
I'm not saying to put Conventional oil in it but at one point the Jeep ecodiesel had a very stringent spec oil then Jeep revised their requirements and now recommend the Rotella T6.
Taking a brand like Land Rover which is small by volume and has their own spec oil. If you were to, for example, test multiple other oils would there be several that meet the LR spec and just weren't certified?
I'm not saying to put Conventional oil in it but at one point the Jeep ecodiesel had a very stringent spec oil then Jeep revised their requirements and now recommend the Rotella T6.
Honestly, if you are looking for alternatives, find the specification sheet for your correct LR oil. Then, start checking oils which are certified and/or claim to meet the specs. From there, you can get an idea of what other certifications are typically seen that meet your original oil spec... "sister specs" if you will.
For instance, I found on Ravenol oil guide for 2016-newer Discovery with the 3.0 TD V6 (pic below)
So therefore, since you're not concerned with warranty purposes, I would say an oil meeting A5/B5 and Ford WSS-M2C913-D would almost certainly meet everything you need. See this thread:
Ford WSS-M2C913-D info
For instance, I found on Ravenol oil guide for 2016-newer Discovery with the 3.0 TD V6 (pic below)
So therefore, since you're not concerned with warranty purposes, I would say an oil meeting A5/B5 and Ford WSS-M2C913-D would almost certainly meet everything you need. See this thread:
Ford WSS-M2C913-D info
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Originally Posted by FlyingTexan
So I understand the whole manufacture's warranty pitch. But putting that aside I'd like to ask if the specific spec of the oil really matters? I can't really imagine manufacturers reinventing the wheel when it comes to producing a vehicle. For instance I have a land rover discovery diesel. It's the same engine in the F150. Land Rover has their own spec but is it really any different or just a stamp that says this oil meets a certain requirement which so many others would? For instance there's no amsoil for my engine but it's always held in high regard. Did the manufacturer just make a spec that's impossible to find or would most full synthetic oils be perfectly fine? I'm just wondering how much is a sales pitch. I find it hard to believe that the best oils out there for my engine are a bunch of no names.
Yes it matters, A LOT.
It is not only engine protection, it is emission system, and that system can wrack havoc on your wallet.
Numerous topics on diesels and oil, search. But stick to spec!
So I understand the whole manufacture's warranty pitch. But putting that aside I'd like to ask if the specific spec of the oil really matters? I can't really imagine manufacturers reinventing the wheel when it comes to producing a vehicle. For instance I have a land rover discovery diesel. It's the same engine in the F150. Land Rover has their own spec but is it really any different or just a stamp that says this oil meets a certain requirement which so many others would? For instance there's no amsoil for my engine but it's always held in high regard. Did the manufacturer just make a spec that's impossible to find or would most full synthetic oils be perfectly fine? I'm just wondering how much is a sales pitch. I find it hard to believe that the best oils out there for my engine are a bunch of no names.
Yes it matters, A LOT.
It is not only engine protection, it is emission system, and that system can wrack havoc on your wallet.
Numerous topics on diesels and oil, search. But stick to spec!
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Is LR engine completely the same as that from F150? I doubt that usa F150 has dpf filter installed?
If you have DPF filter(s) in your LR then you have to go "low saps" way...
Vw504/507 is the toughtes norm to achieve...but is not as fuel conserving as up to date norms (it is 5w30 instead of 0w20 nowadays)
So if you are not fan of today thin oils standards...you can look after oils with standards as vw504/507... Bmw LL-04 MB 229.51 ACEA C3/C4
If you want thin "low saps" versions....vw 508/509...bmw ll-12fe or - 14+fe...ACEA C1/C2...
No other standard in auto industry can beat vw/bmw/MB combo of approvals...
Yes, US diesels have DPF and norms are actually tougher then EU norms. Manufacturers do not comply with EPA in the US but California Air Resource Board (CARB) which encompass California and 11 more states + Colorado from 01/01/2019. That is 55% of new sales in the US. Manufacturers are not going to make one version for CARB and then another one for Kansas.
Is LR engine completely the same as that from F150? I doubt that usa F150 has dpf filter installed?
If you have DPF filter(s) in your LR then you have to go "low saps" way...
Vw504/507 is the toughtes norm to achieve...but is not as fuel conserving as up to date norms (it is 5w30 instead of 0w20 nowadays)
So if you are not fan of today thin oils standards...you can look after oils with standards as vw504/507... Bmw LL-04 MB 229.51 ACEA C3/C4
If you want thin "low saps" versions....vw 508/509...bmw ll-12fe or - 14+fe...ACEA C1/C2...
No other standard in auto industry can beat vw/bmw/MB combo of approvals...
Yes, US diesels have DPF and norms are actually tougher then EU norms. Manufacturers do not comply with EPA in the US but California Air Resource Board (CARB) which encompass California and 11 more states + Colorado from 01/01/2019. That is 55% of new sales in the US. Manufacturers are not going to make one version for CARB and then another one for Kansas.
OP, found this for you in a Motul PDS, which goes right along with what I stated above:
Originally Posted by Motul Website for Eco-nergy 5W30
The JLR « 03.5003 » standard mirrors FORD WSS M2C 913 C specification and covers some of Gasoline and Diesel engines from JAGUAR and LAND ROVER range.
Originally Posted by Motul Website for Eco-nergy 5W30
The JLR « 03.5003 » standard mirrors FORD WSS M2C 913 C specification and covers some of Gasoline and Diesel engines from JAGUAR and LAND ROVER range.
So as said before...nothing special that VW/BMW/MB combo would not cover with benifits....
https://www.oilspecifications.org/ford.php
https://www.oilspecifications.org/ford.php
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Yea I'd imagine it has to do with the turbo lubrication. This was more of a curiosity post. I didn't know how many different variants there were out there or if Shell for instance just walked over to the shelf, grabbed a jug, then went and tested it to put a new certification on it. In other words if most high quality oils meet all the specs but the time and money to get something certified meant they just didn' bother messing with it.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Originally Posted by FlyingTexan
Yea I'd imagine it has to do with the turbo lubrication. This was more of a curiosity post. I didn't know how many different variants there were out there or if Shell for instance just walked over to the shelf, grabbed a jug, then went and tested it to put a new certification on it. In other words if most high quality oils meet all the specs but the time and money to get something certified meant they just didn't' bother messing with it.
BMW LL01 specification was introduced when no BMW had turbo in gasoline engine.
European manufacturers always had more stringent requirements compared to the US or Japanese manufacturers. There is more strain on European roads due to speed, especially in 1990's when European HWY's and some two lane roads were more speed record attempting infrastructure. 1990's is also time when numerous oil specs came out.
Yea I'd imagine it has to do with the turbo lubrication. This was more of a curiosity post. I didn't know how many different variants there were out there or if Shell for instance just walked over to the shelf, grabbed a jug, then went and tested it to put a new certification on it. In other words if most high quality oils meet all the specs but the time and money to get something certified meant they just didn't' bother messing with it.
BMW LL01 specification was introduced when no BMW had turbo in gasoline engine.
European manufacturers always had more stringent requirements compared to the US or Japanese manufacturers. There is more strain on European roads due to speed, especially in 1990's when European HWY's and some two lane roads were more speed record attempting infrastructure. 1990's is also time when numerous oil specs came out.
(And as far as I can tell there is still not retail distributor for Ravenol products in Canada?)
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The correct answer is... "it depends." A turbo direct injection gas engine will definitely need a Dexos 1 Gen 2 and/or API SN+ spec oil. As for my mother-in-law's 2002 Buick LeSabre with the 3800 V6, it'll run forever on just about anything you put in it.
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