Does it really matter how hot it is outside?

[gfh77665]

Nice try, really, but no. Read the following:

http://bestsyntheticoil.com/dealers/amsoil/5w20-cafe.shtml

It IS about CAFE (unless one purposely chooses denial).

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
When are people ever going to understand? Honda "specs" 5-20 FOR U.S. CAFE STANDARDS, period. Everywhere esle around the globe, the exact same Honda engines calls for thicker oils. Please understand this, everyone!!!

And this is a bad thing because...?


I think he is trying to say it doesn't matter one bit if you use 5w20,5w30. I use 5w30 in my Accord and it runs great and gets as good as mileage with either. I would love to see what Honda recommends for their Accords in say, Australia? Does anyone know?


HONDA
Accord VTi/ -L 2.4 Litre VTEC Eng., Automatic (2008-2011)

Crankcase
MOBIL 1 5w30
or MOBIL SUPER 2000 5w30
or MOBIL FORMULA S 5w30
or MOBIL 1 0W-40
or MOBIL SUPER 3000 X2 5W-40
or MOBIL FORMULA X2 5W-40
or MOBIL SUPER 2000 X2 10W-40
or MOBIL FORMULA S2 10W-40
or MOBIL SUPER 1000 X2 15w40
Service Refill Capacity: 4.2* Litres

(not honda but mobil recommendations).

 

[gfh77665]

Someone posted a pic of international Honda owners manuals here a few months ago. Honda calls for 5-30 around the globe, with the exception of the US (5-20).

 

[SuperFast]

US numbers are the exception to the low side as CAFE tightens up. Australia you will find cars spec'ing 40 and mayybe 50 weight oils.

If the answer of this thread is leaning towards 'no it does not matter' then why are euro cars infamous for 40 and 50 weight oils being spec'd even up until present day iirc? And if they are made in hermany do they change the oil once they get here? It CANT be as simple as 'no it does not matter' several powerful cars still want 40 or thicker weight oil in them!!!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: SuperFast
If the answer of this thread is leaning towards 'no it does not matter' then why are euro cars infamous for 40 and 50 weight oils being spec'd even up until present day iirc? And if they are made in hermany do they change the oil once they get here? It CANT be as simple as 'no it does not matter' several powerful cars still want 40 or thicker weight oil in them!!!


The Germans tend to specify a wide range, depending on ambient temperatures. At least that's the historical case; I haven't seen the owner's manual of a brand new German car to see what they're doing now.

However, my 1991 Audi 200 Turbo recommends everything from a 5w-20 in the coldest conditions to a 20w-50 in the heat. So, we really can't say they shun thin oils altogether. Considering the oil temperatures I see, I doubt I would have any lubrication problems using a 5w-20 even on the hottest day in the summer. From a consumption standpoint, however, I almost certainly would have problems.

I think we have manufacturers on both sides of the pond getting their panties bunched up over nothing. Sure, there are certain vehicles out there that have certain requirements due to valvetrain design, high temperatures, and so forth. Aside from that, the average European car isn't going to have an engine failure if it runs 5w-20, and an average American car isn't going to blow up on 10w30 or 5w-40, either.

 

[Pesca]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: ChuckBerry
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
OK, then give us any plausible reason why Honda uses 5-30 around the globe, with the glaring exception of the US. Why? Tell us why?


Possibly because they feel that non U. S. consumers are not ready to accept thinner oils because of perceived lack of protection from 20 weight oils. Possibly because U. S. and Canadian refineries are set up to produce 20 weight oils in sufficient quantities for passenger car use and the rest of the world is not.
Nice try, really, but no. Read the following:

http://bestsyntheticoil.com/dealers/amsoil/5w20-cafe.shtml

It IS about CAFE (unless one purposely chooses denial).


Last time I checked (Xmas time), there was no Xw-20 oil of any sort being sold in France in either big stores, equivalent to Walmart, or in automotive stores, equivalent to Autozone or others.

I wonder who really is in denial, here?

 

[dnewton3]

Chicken or the egg issue ...

Does Honda spec a thinner oil because it's preferred in North America, or do they spec a thicker oil in non-NA markets because that is preferred? Some of it might be CAFE related, but that does not equate into lesser protection. It is quite possible that you can achieve the same wear protection with the thinner lube, and the CAFE drives them there in NA. But in other parts of the world, the 5w-20 is not as prevelant.

Bottom line: show me UOA proof, beyond a single UOA, but rather with true statistical evidence including ranges and trends, that either 5w-20 or 5w30 is a "better" choice, one over the other.

Until you can prove that, this debate is moot. They both do more than an adequate job at what they are designed to do. Combine today's excellent fluids with excellent manufactured equipment, and this stuff will last LONG past where most will ever drive it.

 

[Fallguy]

Believe CAFE standards are across an entire fleet. Even a .25 to .5 mpg savings across multiple vehicle variants within a manufacturer mean a lot and as such thinner oil becomes attractive.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3


Bottom line: show me UOA proof, beyond a single UOA, but rather with true statistical evidence including ranges and trends, that either 5w-20 or 5w30 is a "better" choice, one over the other.



I've been looking for that proof myself, in fact I'm still looking. As long as the mfg specs the oil, using it IMO is a safe bet.

 

[ChuckBerry]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Nice try, really, but no. Read the following:

http://bestsyntheticoil.com/dealers/amsoil/5w20-cafe.shtml


Sez Amsoil.


The bottom line is that the thinner the oil, the faster your oil pump can get it to the top of the engine during cold starts, and the more damage is reduced. You can use 5W30, but you're wearing out your valvetrain faster than you will with 5W20.

http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2212266#Post2212266

 

[Fallguy]

Originally Posted By: ChuckBerry
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Nice try, really, but no. Read the following:

http://bestsyntheticoil.com/dealers/amsoil/5w20-cafe.shtml


Sez Amsoil.


The bottom line is that the thinner the oil, the faster your oil pump can get it to the top of the engine during cold starts, and the more damage is reduced. You can use 5W30, but you're wearing out your valvetrain faster than you will with 5W20.

http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2212266#Post2212266


During cold starts is one 5w is different than another 5w just because the 20-30 grade number is different? Thought the standard for 5w was the same and not dictated by the top number.

Now 30 grade may note flow as well through tighter bearing clearances etc and be a problem, understand that but at cold start they should be equal.

On a same engine is it indeed speced for different grade in different country?

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: JeremyInMT
This is covered really well by "Motor Oil 101" on the front page of this site; at least better than I could, but I'll try to summarize. The answer is no on the hot end but it could on the cold end of things. Check out the main page. It's a terrific read.
Oil 101 is as much opinion as fact.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Fallguy
Originally Posted By: ChuckBerry
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Nice try, really, but no. Read the following:

http://bestsyntheticoil.com/dealers/amsoil/5w20-cafe.shtml


Sez Amsoil.


The bottom line is that the thinner the oil, the faster your oil pump can get it to the top of the engine during cold starts, and the more damage is reduced. You can use 5W30, but you're wearing out your valvetrain faster than you will with 5W20.

http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2212266#Post2212266


During cold starts is one 5w is different than another 5w just because the 20-30 grade number is different? Thought the standard for 5w was the same and not dictated by the top number.

Now 30 grade may note flow as well through tighter bearing clearances etc and be a problem, understand that but at cold start they should be equal.

On a same engine is it indeed speced for different grade in different country?


There are certain 5W-xx oils that flow better than other 5W-xx oils while cold. I've found with my pre-luber this to be true over the years with different brands of oil both conventional and synthetic. I've also found with 5w20 vs 5W30 that the 5W20 got moving a bit faster when cold. Having a pre-luber you can really tell the difference, with an engine oil pump the difference isn't as noticeble. JMO

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Nice try, really, but no. Read the following:

http://bestsyntheticoil.com/dealers/amsoil/5w20-cafe.shtml

It IS about CAFE (unless one purposely chooses denial).
Some just can't believe 20wt is driven.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: ChuckBerry
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Nice try, really, but no. Read the following:

http://bestsyntheticoil.com/dealers/amsoil/5w20-cafe.shtml


Sez Amsoil.


The bottom line is that the thinner the oil, the faster your oil pump can get it to the top of the engine during cold starts, and the more damage is reduced. You can use 5W30, but you're wearing out your valvetrain faster than you will with 5W20.

http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2212266#Post2212266


Soooooo....please tell us then why Honda, lauded for their engineering acumen, spec 5-30 around the globe, except the US!

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: dparm
IMO the ambient temp isn't a big factor. If it was, we'd see car companies listing crazy oil recommendations...especially for people who live in places like Death Valley or whatever. Honda still specs 5w20 for plenty of cars that see ambient temps over 100 while sitting in traffic with the AC on, for example.
Load on the engine is a big factor though. Also oil coolers come into play.

 

[ChuckBerry]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665

Soooooo....please tell us then why Honda, lauded for their engineering acumen, spec 5-30 around the globe, except the US!

Why not ask Honda?

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
Does it really matter how hot it is outside?

Depends on how effective the cooling system is.

 

[Fallguy]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Nice try, really, but no. Read the following:

http://bestsyntheticoil.com/dealers/amsoil/5w20-cafe.shtml

It IS about CAFE (unless one purposely chooses denial).
Some just can't believe 20wt is driven.


Agreed, but think the question at hand is why would it be 20 grade in US but not elswhere. Dont think anyone is knocking 20 grade, just trying to figure out why different outside US.

If the engine is the same I would suspect 20 grade was chosen in US to help out with CAFE not that it was best for the engine ( "if" it gets 30 grade everywhere else). Or what would be the reason besides CAFE in US ?

 

[edhackett]

If not pushing CAFE (remember they have to include all he SUVs, both Honda and Acura). Bigger numbers on the EPA window sticker will sell more cars in Honda's market.

Ed