Does hot oil matter

[TC]

"I can extrapolate that I have surpassed 300F for 20 minutes at a time...Are these oil temps a problem?"

According to the site below:
-Conventional oil, PROBLEM
-Synthetic oil, NO PROBLEM if changed often

"Conventional oils will tolerate engine oil sump temperatures of up to 250 to as much as 275 degrees F without difficulty...oils like Quaker State's full synthetics can easily withstand sump temperatures in excess of 300 degrees F, and he says that some oval track race teams are experimenting with temperatures as high as 350 degrees F...if you plan on running (synthetic) oil temperatures in excess of 300 degrees, this would mean changing the oil after every track event regardless of the mileage."

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0409_slip/

If it was my car I'd simply use synthetic and change it maybe every 2K street/track miles during racing season, but not after every event -- my gut feeling suggests that that frequency (or anything close to it) isn't truly necessary, having time trialed since the early 80's (primarily on dino! -- I'm a cheap b*stard).

[ February 26, 2005, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: TC ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

I would not worry about the oil as much as I would worry about your seals. That type of oil temp in the sump is way to high!! You need to consider an oil cooler. I would also use an oil with a HTHS of at least 4 or higher. I think that Redline 10W40 would be a good place to start or Mobil 1 15W50 or the clasic 50/50 mix of Mobil 1 15W50/10W30 or possable Mobil 1 Truck and SUV 5W40 etc...... I do not think I would pick Mobil 1 0W40 in this case! How does Mobil 1 0W40 test after 400 miles at 300°F in the sump?

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Woohooo........its gonna get up to 80° today! Yes,I did it!

 

[MGBV8]

This type of product may be useful instead of wrap

http://www.jet-hot.com/

 

[teamDFL]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
I would not worry about the oil as much as I would worry about your seals. That type of oil temp in the sump is way to high!! You need to consider an oil cooler. I would also use an oil with a HTHS of at least 4 or higher. I think that Redline 10W40 would be a good place to start or Mobil 1 15W50 or the clasic 50/50 mix of Mobil 1 15W50/10W30 or possable Mobil 1 Truck and SUV 5W40 etc...... I do not think I would pick Mobil 1 0W40 in this case! How does Mobil 1 0W40 test after 400 miles at 300°F in the sump?

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I guess I should find that out, huh? The only seal that I have had a problem with is the valve cover, and I attributed that to the fact that I have removed it a dozen times to swap the cams and service the adjustable cam gears. I do not think that I can run a 10w oil in the car. I have a very small battery in it and on very cold days it struggles to turnover a belly full of 0w-40!

 

[Tyrolkid2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
I would not worry about the oil as much as I would worry about your seals. That type of oil temp in the sump is way to high!!

---

I have no seal issues at 60k miles, and I started tracking my car early in it's life. I think that just like extended intervals have taken a while to catch on, I think that oil temperatures that used to be considered "too high" are going to be "ok" in the future. How much additional protection does a good HT/HS oil really have at 210-220 vs. 270-280?

 

[silverz06vette]

Man, I wish I could get that much track time.

Here is my OA w/ Mobil 1 5w30 after 4400 miles and 3 days on the track. Oil Temps see 290° peak. 4-6 30 min sessions a day:
OA for 01 Z06

A few friends have oil coolers built into their HD rads, but at $1000-$1200 I'm way too darn cheap.

I have 60k on my car now and she still dyno's strong for a 01 with my mods. Last dyno was 2 months ago.

I just ran some Mobil 1 5w30 to 7700 miles and 2 track days. Will post the OA for that. Now have Mobil 1 0w-40 in the car.

 

[teamDFL]

quote:

---

Originally posted by silverz06vette:
Man, I wish I could get that much track time.

Here is my OA w/ Mobil 1 5w30 after 4400 miles and 3 days on the track. Oil Temps see 290° peak. 4-6 30 min sessions a day:
OA for 01 Z06

A few friends have oil coolers built into their HD rads, but at $1000-$1200 I'm way too darn cheap.

I have 60k on my car now and she still dyno's strong for a 01 with my mods. Last dyno was 2 months ago.

I just ran some Mobil 1 5w30 to 7700 miles and 2 track days. Will post the OA for that. Now have Mobil 1 0w-40 in the car.

---

I saw your UOA and that is what got me thinking that a good quality modern synthetic may just be 100% reliable at ~300° temps. You can do a bar-and-plate type oil cooler, thermostatically controlled sandwich plate adater and AN braided lines for $300-$400. Might be more for the Corvette as you could require a larger capacity cooler than my Zetec. Afterall, you've got more than twice the motor!

I am died-in-the-wool track addict! Now that I have kids I usually only get on track 4 or 5 times a year and do my best to get 200 miles per weekend. Being an instructor and being able to run in multiple groups sure helps. I used to have a BMW race car and my wife would joke that she new I would never cheat on here because my other woman was parked in the garage!

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
BMW's Driver's Handbook for the M Roadster states;
"In normal operation the engine oil temperature lies between 80-120C. If you adopt a very enthusiastic driving style, do not exceed 130C (275f) oil temperature"

This is with the following MINERAL oils;
5w-20
5w30
10w-30
10w-40
15w-40

SYNTHETIC oils are of course noted too as;
Special Oils 10w-##
Special Oils 0w/5w-##

All ambient specific of course

The lowest quality rating given is A2-96, CCMC-G4 and API's SH

This BMW VANOS engine series is virtually "bullet proof"

Regards
Doug

 

[teamDFL]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug Hillary:
Hi,
BMW's Driver's Handbook for the M Roadster states;
"In normal operation the engine oil temperature lies between 80-120C. If you adopt a very enthusiastic driving style, do not exceed 130C (275f) oil temperature"

This BMW VANOS engine series is virtually "bullet proof"

Regards
Doug

---

Thanks. That is the first actual datapoint I have seen where a manufacturer has put a ceiling on oil temps.

As for "bullet proof" you must be refering to the early 240 hp M Roadster engine, not the later 315 hp 'Engine of Damacles' variant!

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
TeamDFL - yes you got it, the M52's in particular
and that is why I posted this example as reliabiliy/longevity are this engine's cornerstone

However with the later engines the lack of Manufacturing and Supplier quality controls caused the engine problems rather than the design
as I understand it

Regards
Doug

 

[teamDFL]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MGBV8:
This type of product may be useful instead of wrap

http://www.jet-hot.com/

---

Thanks. I also read about Swain thermal barrier coating in the latest Grassroots Motorsports and they said that a coated header can be touched when running!

For $125, it might be worth a look. I don't have good tech on how this stuff works, so it might have some of the same drawbacks as header wrap, just in a more elegant package.