Does anyone not change T-belt?
- Thread starter BigBuck
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I can't answer for others, but yes, they can and will fail. I've seen it many times. Normally, they'll fail quite a bit after the recommended change. The manufacturer's usually build a safety margin into their change schedule. That said, every engine is driven and maintained under vastly different conditions and I have witnessed failures not too long after recommended change. I've also seen where they haven't failed at twice the recommended change, but IMHO it's playing Russian Roulet to do so. Also, most of the time, the belts look just fine right up to the time they fail. If you have an interference engine, the results tend to be catastrophic with bent intake valves and holes in pistons etc. Non-interferrance engines are no sweat. They'll just quit running. My advise is to change as recommended. It's dollar wise to do so.
I've seen many, many timing belts fail, usually ending in disaster.
I had one fail on my 96 escort. Not sure if that qualifies as "modern."
The OP is referring to the timing belt, not an accessory belt. The timing belt requires a bit of surgery, if you will.
I don't recall the recommended interval on that era 4cyl Camry...it may only be 60k? Maybe more like 90k?...but I would change it when recommended.
And yes, definitely change them when recommended. Not doing so can be annoying (engine stops--ex-GF had that on her old Escort) to catastrophic, as decribed above depending on engine design.
I don't recall the recommended interval on that era 4cyl Camry...it may only be 60k? Maybe more like 90k?...but I would change it when recommended.
And yes, definitely change them when recommended. Not doing so can be annoying (engine stops--ex-GF had that on her old Escort) to catastrophic, as decribed above depending on engine design.
Originally Posted By: jetmech1
Also, most of the time, the belts look just fine right up to the time they fail.
This is the key point. Inspecting the belt for cracking and missing teeth is ok but it tells you absolutely nothing about what is happening to the internal cording.
Also, most of the time, the belts look just fine right up to the time they fail.
This is the key point. Inspecting the belt for cracking and missing teeth is ok but it tells you absolutely nothing about what is happening to the internal cording.
yes on a 1997 dodge avenger. First car with a timing belt I had. I think it failed at around 120 or 130,000 miles. I blame the cam oil seals leaking and degrading the belt.
oh yeah had to redo the heads cuz of a bunch of bent valves.
timing belts are now on my PM list.
oh yeah had to redo the heads cuz of a bunch of bent valves.
timing belts are now on my PM list.
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Well boys, here is what happens when you let a timing belt go 245,996 miles BEYOND the manufacturers recommendation without changing it. The car in question was my dads 1997 Corolla (now mine, due to the $900 estimate from Toyota for replacing the belt and all the carnage).
The belt itself was definitely worn, the outside was cracked down to the center every 1/4 inch or so along its entire length. The 'teeth' on the inside of the belt were in remarkably good shape. It took a good bit of cutting with a razor to get through the belt, even as worn and cracked as it was. Unfortunately, it was the belt tensioner pulley, not the belt, that finally let go, as you can see in the picture. Ball bearings and pieces of the bearing race from the pulley went everywhere, and jammed themselves into the crank timing gear ($45), breaking the sensing teeth off it, rendering it useless, which in turn pushed debris against the crank position sensor ($85), destroying it in the process as well.
Luckily, this is a non-interference engine so the valves and pistons are fine. Changing the water pump (the original one), the crank seal, and cam seal while I am in there. As leaky as these seals were, there wasn’t a speck of oil anywhere on the belt.
So, I guess, the lesson here is…..…. don’t go 315,996 miles on the original timing belt!
Kestas
Staff member
I ran my 85 Dodge Omni 2.2L 165K without changing the timing belt. Nobody told me it needed changing, nor was it mentioned in the maintenance manual!
Manufacturers mention it's not the belt per se that fails, but more likely the tensioner or idler pulley that seizes, and results in a shredded timing belt.
Manufacturers mention it's not the belt per se that fails, but more likely the tensioner or idler pulley that seizes, and results in a shredded timing belt.
I have a friend who drives a lot [electrician] with a fleet of beaters; all with t-belts:
'81 VW PU Diesel
'88 BMW 528e
'92 VW Jetta
'94 Geo Prizm
all daily drivers w/exception of the VW Diesel PU.
After changing his belts every 60,000 miles and removing a practically new belt every time he decided it was a waste of time and money and stopped changing them. The VW Diesel PU shredded its belt at idle speed soon afterwards, but had no valve/piston damage due to not being in gear when it broke and him not trying to crank it over after it stalled with an ominous noise. He was wise enough to peel back the timing cover and check the belt before trying to crank over the engine. He now changes his T-belts every 60,000 miles.
'81 VW PU Diesel
'88 BMW 528e
'92 VW Jetta
'94 Geo Prizm
all daily drivers w/exception of the VW Diesel PU.
After changing his belts every 60,000 miles and removing a practically new belt every time he decided it was a waste of time and money and stopped changing them. The VW Diesel PU shredded its belt at idle speed soon afterwards, but had no valve/piston damage due to not being in gear when it broke and him not trying to crank it over after it stalled with an ominous noise. He was wise enough to peel back the timing cover and check the belt before trying to crank over the engine. He now changes his T-belts every 60,000 miles.
Not me, but a co-worker has a 2001 Kia Sportage and recently his timing belt broke. I'm not sure if it's an interference engine, but I still think he got lucky, as he was just taking off and he believes the belt broke when he shifted from 1st to 2nd. He admitted that he knew about the belt change but never bothered. Needless to say, after a belt change he's back on the road, lucky SOG.
The only wierd thing is that he's got pretty low miles on the car, around 100k, so I was surprised that the timing belt broke.
The only wierd thing is that he's got pretty low miles on the car, around 100k, so I was surprised that the timing belt broke.
May cars have interference engines. The valves can kiss the pistons and bend if the timing belt system is awry.
So don't neglect this system on your car.
So don't neglect this system on your car.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
The only wierd thing is that he's got pretty low miles on the car, around 100k, so I was surprised that the timing belt broke.
That is low mileage, but age is also a factor.
The only wierd thing is that he's got pretty low miles on the car, around 100k, so I was surprised that the timing belt broke.
That is low mileage, but age is also a factor.
This is not as easy a call as it seem though. I have one (interference engine too) the original was changed at 25,000 miles but 8 years old due to fear of it going ( it was in good shape when it was removed though) . Current one is also around 26,000 miles and 8 years old, total mileage on car is only 51,000 miles, a 1997. I inspected it via an access cover and it looks like new, no cracks nothing. I would normally change it if it was a reasonable price, say in the 300-600 range. However, it is (with the water pump (pump is original) and tensioner and two other belts a $1,150 job due to being inaccessible , over half of that is labor. Just a bear to work on. So, having inspected it I am going to go another year and see what happens.
In our family, we learned to have timing belts changed due to a hard lessons.
When the 1985 Maxima had the belt fail in 1994, nobody in our family knew what a timing belt was...... Until it did $1600 of damage to the engine, enough to junk the car.
After that mom got a 1994 Eagle summit and when the specified mileage was reached (60,000 miles) we had the belt replaced.
Dad's 1995 Honda Accord got the belt changed at 90,000 miles as specified in the manual.
Both cars had water pumps fail, both had to have the belt replaced AGAIN not long into the life of the second belt.
Dad got a great deal on a 1997 Lexus ES300. He drove the car until 2006, and never had the belt done because he was told he had a non intereference engine. He made the decision not to replace the belt until it let go, or the water pump leaked. He reached about 160,000 miles, and sold the car, the belt was never changed.
Thankfully everyone in our family had timing chain engines. Auto manufacturers learned that people do not want an expensive ticking time bomb in their car.
I hope whoever invented the timing belt was hung at the neck by one.
When the 1985 Maxima had the belt fail in 1994, nobody in our family knew what a timing belt was...... Until it did $1600 of damage to the engine, enough to junk the car.
After that mom got a 1994 Eagle summit and when the specified mileage was reached (60,000 miles) we had the belt replaced.
Dad's 1995 Honda Accord got the belt changed at 90,000 miles as specified in the manual.
Both cars had water pumps fail, both had to have the belt replaced AGAIN not long into the life of the second belt.
Dad got a great deal on a 1997 Lexus ES300. He drove the car until 2006, and never had the belt done because he was told he had a non intereference engine. He made the decision not to replace the belt until it let go, or the water pump leaked. He reached about 160,000 miles, and sold the car, the belt was never changed.
Thankfully everyone in our family had timing chain engines. Auto manufacturers learned that people do not want an expensive ticking time bomb in their car.
I hope whoever invented the timing belt was hung at the neck by one.
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