Dodge "muscle strategy" versus Chevy/Ford?

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SumpChump

Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
1,980
Location
Upper Midwest by the Lakes USA
Seems like since say '04 seems that Dodge has unabashedly gone big on cubic inches and horsepower and special sports series of vehicles. While Ford's "toughest" Raptor can't even be had with a V8 anymore from factory.... Dodge is slapping SRT and 390+ cubic inches in almost anything. I can't even recall all the flavors of challenger out there...Srt, raptor,hellcat...and on. Even a huuuge horsepower durango suv coming. Meanwhile Chevy is going to engines displacing less than a Kwik Trip big slurp and slapping turbos on turbos. Is this Dodge strategy the equivalent of business model insanity or is it genius?
 
Adding cubic inches is an easy/inexpensive fix when you want to increase horsepower. Other manufacturers are adding HP, reducing weight and conserving MPG at the same time. That takes time, research and money. I think Dodge may be falling behind with modern times but I may be wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
Adding cubic inches is an easy/inexpensive fix when you want to increase horsepower. Other manufacturers are adding HP, reducing weight and conserving MPG at the same time. That takes time, research and money. I think Dodge may be falling behind with modern times but I may be wrong.
Agreed. A new F150 with a 5.0L makes about the same HP/TQ as a 5.7L Hemi Dodge. Also, FWIW, the new "V6" Raptor pushes 450HP.
 
Camaro ZL1 Camaro ZL1 LE Camaro SS Corvette and up models The Chevy SS was around for a bit. CTS-V They need big cubes because those cars are HEAVY Unless you are talking Demon, The rest of the Mopars in the price ranges of the cars above don't out run the GM stuff. You have Demon, Challenger SRT, Challenger SRT with Scat Pac, Hellcat. Same ones in Charger form. So are you saying you need cubes to win? I love the MoPar stuff, but give me and LS/LT any day. Cheap and plentiful. smile
 
I think what Dodge is doing is awesome, lots of FCA haters but there is clearly a market for the masculine classic muscle car. I’ve driven chargers and challengers, they are fun. These cars aren’t built for the twisty track but neither were muscle cars of the 60s-70s. I have a hemi ram with flow masters and you can’t replace that v8 sound with a turbo V6. With that said, those v6s like the f150 eco boost are amazing.. it’s all preference. I nearly bought the eco boost last year but went with the hemi. It’s all preference but there is clearly a demand. Wifey has a grand Cherokee pentastar V6, trying to talk her into the hemi.
 
DB had money to blow. Fiat doesn't. Old tech fuel guzzlers rather than more modern designs? Why not? Makes our obsolete powertrains look good and at current fuel prices nobody cares. GM and Ford can afford more modern designs while FCA can't. Simple as that.
 
This makes me wonder what my 1973 Bronco with the 302 made HP wise. I know it wasn't much but I was in High School and it was plenty!
 
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
This makes me wonder what my 1973 Bronco with the 302 made HP wise. I know it wasn't much but I was in High School and it was plenty!
Just about the same as my '75 = 125HP HAHAHA! I rebuilt the 2.5L Jeep engine in my trail rig and it makes 150HP. LOL
 
Don't forget, the Ford SHO is just as fast as a 5.7 (NA) Charger. I have no excuse for Chevy and them giving up on the SS.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
DB had money to blow. Fiat doesn't. Old tech fuel guzzlers rather than more modern designs? Why not? Makes our obsolete powertrains look good and at current fuel prices nobody cares. GM and Ford can afford more modern designs while FCA can't. Simple as that.
The 6.4L/392 is actually a rather new engine and is no less "high tech" than GM's LSx series engines. Putting the ZF 8spd behind it and the big lump even gets decent gas mileage. The Pentastar is their latest affordable DOHC effort, which most equate with "high tech". The little turbo mills are going in Fiat products, they are keeping their bread and butter (the trucks) naturally aspirated (save the Cummins) as they do not have the time or money invested in a turbo V6 programme like Ford has. GM has stayed a similar route, save for the addition of Direct Injection. Both of the highest performance offerings from GM and Dodge are big old supercharged pushrod V8's.
 
Fast cars just don't do it for me anymore. There was a time maybe ending around 10 yrs ago when I would have gladly went into debt for any of the above mentioned offerings from GM, Dodge, or Ford. I do still like mc riding, though.
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Isn’t the GT350 still a V8?
Yes, flat plane crank too. A lot of time and money went into developing that engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
Adding cubic inches is an easy/inexpensive fix when you want to increase horsepower. Other manufacturers are adding HP, reducing weight and conserving MPG at the same time. That takes time, research and money. I think Dodge may be falling behind with modern times but I may be wrong.
Agreed. A new F150 with a 5.0L makes about the same HP/TQ as a 5.7L Hemi Dodge. Also, FWIW, the new "V6" Raptor pushes 450HP.
Ford went all-in with the cammers starting with the Modular and produced their last automotive pushrod engine in 2001, which went in the 5L Explorer. It is not surprising they've stayed that course. GM toyed around with it a bit (Northstar) but ultimately found the most traction with the LSx mills to replace the venerable SBC and that's the route they've stuck with. They've developed a high performance V6 (HF V6) that has not been problem-free as their intermediate engine. Chrysler also toyed around with it, spawning the 4.7L OHC V8. While not a popular motor, and having some relatively benign but common issues, they, like GM, found the most traction with a pushrod V8 (the HEMI) and that's also been the route they've stuck with. They've also developed a high performance V6 (Pentastar) that, like GM's offering, had some initial issues but has been pretty much sorted at this point. All three have toyed around with turbo small displacement mills in their small cars. Ford ditched the 6.2L V8 in favour of another Ecoboost variant, both Chrysler and GM developed supercharged versions of their staple platforms (LSx and HEMI) and those have been their top-performance offerings.
 
Give me cubic inches over turbo's, superchargers, nitrous, and other toys any day. I've owned 8 of the classic big block Mopars of the 1968-1970 era...and appreciate them bringing back some nostalgia (and cubes) with their offerings of the past 9 years.
 
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
Is this Dodge strategy the equivalent of business model insanity or is it genius?
It's what you do when you have nothing. They have pretty much no tech and little R&D budget to do new tech as FCA is strapped. So we dust off the old designs, market to the gold chains, hairy chest generation and hope it works. The 'bigger is better'. Use an outdated Mercedes chassis to underpin it all and hope it works. It has been working to an extent as the ads are quite good. On the subject of Muscle, sine their inception, only last month (August) did the Challenger outsell the Mustang. This month, Mustang was the #62 selling car and the Challenger was #70. Camaro has had ups and down but this last refresh has had low sales, below both. I think the gravy train is ending for them - just this month, Chrysler's NA sales are down when Ford and GM are up. Chrysler -16% Sept, -23% year Dodge -30% Sept, -6% year Jeep -4% Sept, -12% year Ram -1.4% Sept, +5% year FCA as a whole -9.7% Sept while GM was up 12%, Ford up 8.7% Source for all this was goodcarbadcar.net and pickuptrucks.com. How long can they keep this going with these declining sales? This was with a couple hurricanes pushing vehicle sales up. Do they have anything good in the pipeline? Doubtful.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Don't forget, the Ford SHO is just as fast as a 5.7 (NA) Charger.
And probably more fun to drive as the AWD and turbos just hook up and go, rain or shine. At a light I can nail the gas in the rain and it just hooks up and goes. Heck, the Ecoboost F150 will hang with a early to mid 2000's Mustang in the straight line..... Turbos make great flat power that everyone loves. They may not have the sound of the V8 but once you get used to the power that all goes away.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top