Do synthetic lubricate better?

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by Paul_Siu

I would say wear. I would think lower friction = lower wear, but may be that isn't the case. Paul

In terms of exclusively mechanical wear that's correct at the rolled up level if not a bit overly general. To drill that down it has to break out the mechanical factors ( load, velocity, property of materials, clearances and so forth) and how the lubricant reacts against them in terms of reducing effect of wear. At that point a valid line item comparison between specific oil compounds as to which performs better in the specific application ( better is a nebulous adjective and scientifically useless as it has no assigned value) So, what exactly and specifically are you asking or are after?

 

[RDY4WAR]

Wear and friction are not directly linked. You can have high friction with low wear and vice versa. ZDDP increases friction as the concentration increases, but wear decreases (to an extent). Same when comparing a group I or II oil to a PAO in an application with high shock loads.

 

[Micahmcmeen]

Watch project farms. Synthetic oil causes less wear than conventional in his tests.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

Watch project farms. Synthetic oil causes less wear than conventional in his tests.

Those tests have no relevance to engines. It's like testing which color of Prius could tow easier. The results are meaningless. Whether conventional or synthetic is better is application specific and can't be determined by a scar rig that was never intended to be used on engine oils in the first place.

 

[SWS]

Overall, I'm sold on synthetic. At a minimum, it brings margin to even the family car driven in a mild climate. My varying experiences with conversion from conventional to M1: I converted my 1997 Camry (sludge-prone) from conventional to M1 synthetic in 2004 on the advice of members of this site. I changed the oil myself in those days, and performed 2 short-cycle OCI as the M1 oil turned super black almost immediately. Then it stayed amber and I changed oil every 6 months thereafter. Had to replace the valve cover gasket sometime later - the engine was clean internally. Importantly, there was an immediate improvement in starter speed on cold mornings and better performance in the first mile (stop-and-go neighborhood driving). Mileage increased a little. All of this in my rather mild Tennessee climate. We had that car in our family until 2017 & was running well. Also converted my 2000 Odyssey from conventional to M1 in 2004. Observed some darkening on the first 2 OCI, then remained amber thereafter. No change in start-up, no change in driveability, no change in mileage. Engine remained clean and tight until we sold it a few months ago.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

Watch project farms. Synthetic oil causes less wear than conventional in his tests.

He knows absolutely nothing about measuring wear in an engine, even less due to the oil base stock composition. Worse than nothing actually since he thinks he does. Ignorance turns into misinformation at that point because he's promulgating error and promoting it as fact. Notice how he fooled you, so I doubt you're the only one.

 

[Paul_Siu]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR

Originally Posted by Paul_Siu

I would say wear. I would think lower friction = lower wear, but may be that isn't the case. Paul

In terms of exclusively mechanical wear that's correct at the rolled up level if not a bit overly general. To drill that down it has to break out the mechanical factors ( load, velocity, property of materials, clearances and so forth) and how the lubricant reacts against them in terms of reducing effect of wear. At that point a valid line item comparison between specific oil compounds as to which performs better in the specific application ( better is a nebulous adjective and scientifically useless as it has no assigned value) So, what exactly and specifically are you asking or are after?

Simply, can I make my engine last longer if I use synthetic oil instead of conventional oil, assuming that I maintain the same oil change interval as specified by the manufacturer. Paul

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Paul_Siu

Simply, can I make my engine last longer if I use synthetic oil instead of conventional oil, assuming that I maintain the same oil change interval as specified by the manufacturer. Paul

See the AAA study. Some conventional oils are better than synthetic oils. However, on the average, synthetic oils are better. Last longer what? As many others said, the engine is usually the last part that fails on a car. Cooling, fuel, emission, suspension, electrical, etc., etc. problems will drive you nuts and make the car economically impractical long before the engine has a wear-related problem. Japanese know the best -- they don't even allow cars over 100,000 miles on the road, probably for safety reasons, even though you're hearing this from someone whose last car was approaching 300,000 miles and 35 years. Synthetic oil better than conventional -- AAA study and report

 

[LTZ10]

Perhaps so. What type of vehicle do you have? What is the engine option? What are your driving habits? There are too many factors to say that, for you, one is better than the other without considering these qualifiers. Why not simply use what the owner's manual says to use? Dino engine oils are better than they were years ago, but it could be that they become an oil type no longer used in the near future. Synthetics are better in several attributes, but there are plenty of engines out there that have 150k+ miles and have been using only brand name dino oil.

 

[Paul_Siu]

Originally Posted by LTZ10

Perhaps so. What type of vehicle do you have? What is the engine option? What are your driving habits? There are too many factors to say that, for you, one is better than the other without considering these qualifiers. Why not simply use what the owner's manual says to use? Dino engine oils are better than they were years ago, but it could be that they become an oil type no longer used in the near future. Synthetics are better in several attributes, but there are plenty of engines out there that have 150k+ miles and have been using only brand name dino oil.

I currently own 2 cars. A 2011 outback and a 2018 Mazda 3 GT. I drive normally as do my wife to work. We don't drive like maniacs nor the weather gets particular hot or over dirt roads, etc. The Subaru manual do not specify the use of synthetics and when it's taken to the dealer, they change it with conventional oil automatically. I am wondering if changing it to synthetic will increase life. Following the manual is necessary for warranty, but at the same time there may be omission or bad advice. The manual indicates CVT fluid is for life and never need changing, which based on some poking around appears to be bad advise. In addition, sometimes products appear that were not available at the time the car is purchased. Paul

 

[FCD]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

Watch project farms. Synthetic oil causes less wear than conventional in his tests.

Those tests have no relevance to engines. It's like testing which color of Prius could tow easier. The results are meaningless. Whether conventional or synthetic is better is application specific and can't be determined by a scar rig that was never intended to be used on engine oils in the first place.

+1, i love Project Farm but his "oil tests" are meaningless.

 

[FCD]

It might, but an insignificant amount. What a good synthetic will allow you to do is longer oil change intervals, that is true ( in general terms )

 

[wemay]

Not only extend OCI... Synthetic oils have better Noack which leads to less burn off and consumption. Keep your engine cleaner, less varnish. In colder climates, the better CCS numbers translate to easier starts. Withstand extreme temperatures better, maintaining their performance envelop.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by Paul_Siu

Simply, can I make my engine last longer if I use synthetic oil instead of conventional oil, assuming that I maintain the same oil change interval as specified by the manufacturer. Paul

Very good, then to answer you simply- NO A "longer lasting engine" (however that's defined) is a culmination of proper maintenance in all areas along with proper operation over time. The oil ( like your blood) is a critical part but not the only one and no oil will displace, mend or compensate for wear/damage in other areas. Synthetics have superior properties in many areas ( assuming we null the longevity ones) on standardized tests, that's true but if your engine doesn't "require' those qualities in the baseline design then their benefit over the dino counterpart is a little vague and undefinable. Synthetics are not a magic panacea that just makes engines 'last longer' because they are synthetic.

 

[Micahmcmeen]

Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

Watch project farms. Synthetic oil causes less wear than conventional in his tests.

Those tests have no relevance to engines. It's like testing which color of Prius could tow easier. The results are meaningless. Whether conventional or synthetic is better is application specific and can't be determined by a scar rig that was never intended to be used on engine oils in the first place.

+1, i love Project Farm but his "oil tests" are meaningless.

That may be true however the question was do they lubricate better than conventional. The answer is yes, synthetic oils have better lubricating properties than that of conventional. I would be happy to post several articles that proof that statement. If there any article that state the opposite would be happy to see them.

 

[ka9mnx]

I use "synthetic" oil because it's $1.00 more than conventional (in the brand I use). If the price spread was huge, I would have no problem using conventional oil.

 

[buddylpal]

Originally Posted by PimTac

Originally Posted by buddylpal

There have been some owners manuals stating to not use synthetic oil until engine break in has been complete. I think this was more common on vehicles from prior decades. So there is that aspect to think about. From a technical stand point synthetic oil does stand in grade better and resists shear better and this is something pretty much all motor oil companies will tell you. So yes, I do think synthetic oils lubricate better but the benefit may only be realized in some engines. A low stress engine may not require a synthetic oil because the engine design won't stress the motor oil and will get the same wear protection regardless if conventional or synthetic oil is used. I think it really boils down to engine design and what the manufacturer recommends.

I would venture a guess that most new vehicles come with synthetic oil off the assembly line.

I'm not sure about most. Ford uses synblend, Hyundai/Kia uses conventional (not sure about the 2020 models that spec 0w-20), FCA uses conventional on most of their naturally aspirated engines. I'm not sure about other manufacturers.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

That may be true however the question was do they lubricate better than conventional. The answer is yes, synthetic oils have better lubricating properties than that of conventional. I would be happy to post several articles that proof that statement. If there any article that state the opposite would be happy to see them.

You can't make a general statement like that without first knowing the application. For example, oils with high amounts of PAO may work well in naturally aspirated engines, where cylinder pressures are relatively low, and in boosted applications where the cylinder pressure rise is more gradual. Put a majority PAO oil in an engine consuming a lot of nitrous and your bearings will hate you as PAO lacks the pressure-viscosity coefficient to handle the high shock loads from nitrous combustion. That scar test of his won't tell you that. It won't tell you anything about the wear rates of any part of an internal combustion engine. Whether one oil performs better than another in that test might as well be a coin toss as that would be just as reliable of results. If you truly wanted an oil that would have excellent results in that scar test, take a straight grade group I 20 cSt oil and load with 3000+ ppm Zn and P (from ZDDP) and a ton of chlorinated paraffins. It would blowout anything else in that scar test... but would corrode the inside of your engine in a heartbeat.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

That may be true however the question was do they lubricate better than conventional. The answer is yes, synthetic oils have better lubricating properties than that of conventional. I would be happy to post several articles that proof that statement. If there any article that state the opposite would be happy to see them.

Show us what you got.

 

[Govtman]

Heard it put this way by Auto Mech instructor. Dino has uneven different shaped molecules like gravel, synthetic is even and smoth, like ball bearings. If you has to push something like a deep freeze across a concrete floor, would you rather have ball bearings under it or gravel? You can get it done with gravel but i prefer ball bearings. All i know is i had a 97 dodge Laramie CC 4×4 with 5.9/auto that i changed to synthetic in engine, transfer case and differentials and my average mileage increased from 15.5 to 16.7 calculated at the pump.