Do synthetic lubricate better?

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by Govtman

Heard it put this way by Auto Mech instructor. Dino has uneven different shaped molecules like gravel, synthetic is even and smoth, like ball bearings. If you has to push something like a deep freeze across a concrete floor, would you rather have ball bearings under it or gravel? You can get it done with gravel but i prefer ball bearings. All i know is i had a 97 dodge Laramie CC 4×4 with 5.9/auto that i changed to synthetic in engine, transfer case and differentials and my average mileage increased from 15.5 to 16.7 calculated at the pump.

The example is a dramatic oversimplification. It would also only apply when comparing a group I, II, or III base oil against a group IV PAO. Group III, which is what makes up the vast majority of API rated synthetics, is still like the gravel in your example, just more like consistently sized pea gravel. Guess what both the pea gravel and ball bearings both do in your example? Keep the deep freezer off the floor. That separation is your closest relevant lubrication example to an engine. Guess which one is more likely to squeeze out from under the deep freeze and cause it to touch the floor again? The ball bearings. The higher friction with the floor and freezer with the gravel helps keep them separated. This is how pressure-viscosity coefficient works and why you can't make a blanket statement that synthetics are better at everything.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Govtman

Heard it put this way by Auto Mech instructor. Dino has uneven different shaped molecules like gravel, synthetic is even and smoth, like ball bearings. If you has to push something like a deep freeze across a concrete floor, would you rather have ball bearings under it or gravel? You can get it done with gravel but i prefer ball bearings.

Ah yes, the goofy old "uneven molecules" illustration which knows nothing about molecular physics. Neither synthetic nor conventional oil has "smooth" nor are they like ball bearings at all. More than that, the size of oil molecules compared to the asperities in bearings and metal surfaces is a laughable comparison. Synthetic oil production creates an overall distribution of molecular weights and you get a variety of molecules and sizes. Subsequent processing reduces the variation but it never looks anything like a ball bearing, ever.

 

[Micahmcmeen]

Originally Posted by kschachn

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

That may be true however the question was do they lubricate better than conventional. The answer is yes, synthetic oils have better lubricating properties than that of conventional. I would be happy to post several articles that proof that statement. If there any article that state the opposite would be happy to see them.

Show us what you got.

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants...or-oil/synthetic-oil-vs-conventional-oil

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

Originally Posted by kschachn

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

That may be true however the question was do they lubricate better than conventional. The answer is yes, synthetic oils have better lubricating properties than that of conventional. I would be happy to post several articles that proof that statement. If there any article that state the opposite would be happy to see them.

Show us what you got.

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants...or-oil/synthetic-oil-vs-conventional-oil

That's just a bunch of marketing hooplah. It's not surprising that a company that gets the majority of their oil sales profits in synthetic to promote synthetic.

 

[CT8]

Do synthetic lubricate better? Well they have certain better qualities that being said is syns were better all the commercial operators Would be running syn oils in their $50,000.00+ engines.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

That may be true however the question was do they lubricate better than conventional. The answer is yes, synthetic oils have better lubricating properties than that of conventional. I would be happy to post several articles that proof that statement. If there any article that state the opposite would be happy to see them.

You can't make a general statement like that without first knowing the application. For example, oils with high amounts of PAO may work well in naturally aspirated engines, where cylinder pressures are relatively low, and in boosted applications where the cylinder pressure rise is more gradual. Put a majority PAO oil in an engine consuming a lot of nitrous and your bearings will hate you as PAO lacks the pressure-viscosity coefficient to handle the high shock loads from nitrous combustion. That scar test of his won't tell you that. It won't tell you anything about the wear rates of any part of an internal combustion engine. Whether one oil performs better than another in that test might as well be a coin toss as that would be just as reliable of results. If you truly wanted an oil that would have excellent results in that scar test, take a straight grade group I 20 cSt oil and load with 3000+ ppm Zn and P (from ZDDP) and a ton of chlorinated paraffins. It would blowout anything else in that scar test... but would corrode the inside of your engine in a heartbeat.

. Most syn oils are a now days a blend. to improve the pressure-viscosity coefficient [film strength ?].

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

Originally Posted by kschachn

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

That may be true however the question was do they lubricate better than conventional. The answer is yes, synthetic oils have better lubricating properties than that of conventional. I would be happy to post several articles that proof that statement. If there any article that state the opposite would be happy to see them.

Show us what you got.

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants...or-oil/synthetic-oil-vs-conventional-oil

Read the first point under Section 4 carefully in that Mobil link. The key words are in red. As long as a conventional oil does not break down then the wear protection is still the same. There's a reason that full synthetic oil is recommended for very long OCIs. The main key properties to wear protection are: 1) Oil viscosity, 2) Anti-friction additives and 3) Anti-wear additives. If a conventional and synthetic oil both had the same of those three properties, then they will both lubricate and protect the same. But at some point, the conventional oil will degrade before the synthetic, and that is when the lubrication performance difference would be seen. -------------------- Copy and paste from the Mobil link above ---------------------- So how do synthetic oils outperform conventional oils? By offering greater engine wear protection Engine parts are in constant contact with each other and moving at high speeds. In the extreme environment of your engine, components can wear and break down. Your motor oil is the only protective barrier between these components. As conventional and synthetic blend oils break down, typically, their ability to prevent engine wear diminishes. But Mobil 1 full synthetic oils retain their wear protection properties for a much longer time, helping to increase engine life by keeping important engine parts in excellent condition for 250,000 miles.*

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by CT8

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

That may be true however the question was do they lubricate better than conventional. The answer is yes, synthetic oils have better lubricating properties than that of conventional. I would be happy to post several articles that proof that statement. If there any article that state the opposite would be happy to see them.

You can't make a general statement like that without first knowing the application. For example, oils with high amounts of PAO may work well in naturally aspirated engines, where cylinder pressures are relatively low, and in boosted applications where the cylinder pressure rise is more gradual. Put a majority PAO oil in an engine consuming a lot of nitrous and your bearings will hate you as PAO lacks the pressure-viscosity coefficient to handle the high shock loads from nitrous combustion. That scar test of his won't tell you that. It won't tell you anything about the wear rates of any part of an internal combustion engine. Whether one oil performs better than another in that test might as well be a coin toss as that would be just as reliable of results. If you truly wanted an oil that would have excellent results in that scar test, take a straight grade group I 20 cSt oil and load with 3000+ ppm Zn and P (from ZDDP) and a ton of chlorinated paraffins. It would blowout anything else in that scar test... but would corrode the inside of your engine in a heartbeat.

Would I be wrong is saying today's syn oils and conventional oils have similar add packages.

Aside from pour point depressants and VI content, there's little difference between the additive packages of conventional and synthetic oils of the same brand and API rating. Boutique oils (non-API) don't follow the same rules.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

Originally Posted by kschachn

Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen

That may be true however the question was do they lubricate better than conventional. The answer is yes, synthetic oils have better lubricating properties than that of conventional. I would be happy to post several articles that proof that statement. If there any article that state the opposite would be happy to see them.

Show us what you got.

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants...or-oil/synthetic-oil-vs-conventional-oil

Read the first point under Section 4 carefully in that Mobil link. The key words are in red. As long as a conventional oil does not break down then the wear protection is still the same. There's a reason that full synthetic oil is recommended for very long OCIs. The main key properties to wear protection are: 1) Oil viscosity, 2) Anti-friction additives and 3) Anti-wear additives. If a conventional and synthetic oil both had the same of those three properties, then they will both lubricate and protect the same. But at some point, the conventional oil will degrade before the synthetic, and that is when the lubrication performance difference would be seen. -------------------- Copy and paste from the Mobil link above ---------------------- So how do synthetic oils outperform conventional oils? By offering greater engine wear protection Engine parts are in constant contact with each other and moving at high speeds. In the extreme environment of your engine, components can wear and break down. Your motor oil is the only protective barrier between these components. As conventional and synthetic blend oils break down, typically, their ability to prevent engine wear diminishes. But Mobil 1 full synthetic oils retain their wear protection properties for a much longer time, helping to increase engine life by keeping important engine parts in excellent condition for 250,000 miles.*

Understanding that wear protection is apparently the same between conventional and synthetic given that neither have broken down yet....what if you consider a vehicle that gets short tripped to work every day (7 mile round trip like mine for example) the synthetic could be protecting better when the engine is still cold correct? So in this case maybe a synthetic would provide better wear protection? Both of my engine's are 70s and 80s flat tappet v8 engines with a carburetor, never rebuilt. Or maybe with unknown fuel dilution (no symptoms of it fwiw) I'd be better off using a cheap conventional and changing it every 3 months? My current regimen has been a top tier synthetic 5w30 changed right before I store it for winter in November, then run it a couple months in the spring, then change it and run that until I park it for winter. Probably 2k miles on the first run that included winter storage and over 3k on the second run, 2 changes per year. I'm looking for the best for this engine. It probably had over 200k when I pulled it from the junkyard, now over 300k. I put over 100k on it in 13 years and it runs the same as it did 13 years ago. It used to do a long highway drive every day and now I work locally. I want to do a cam and head swap for more power but I can't afford to rebuild the bottom end. It doesn't use more than a qt between changes and runs like new, I've used nothing but full synthetic.