Do I need 4x4?

[Bill in Utah]

I drive 63 miles one way up here and drove a 1996 2 wheel open diff chev 1/2 ton truck everyday with no problems in the snow. I had 300 lbs of salt in the back and just drove it. And my work hours have me on the road at 2am starting so the plows are not out in force to say the least..

I sold it and bought a 2000 chev 4x4 4.8lt ext cab truck and it does well. I drive it most of the time in 2 wheel drive (is a parttime unit and binds on anything but ice/packed/offroad when turning) and since in 2wd its the same as the older truck it does about the same in the snow.

Most of the time I drive a FWD car in the snow with snow tires and get around just great...

Now, My old truck gas milage avg was about 24 mpg and my new one averages about 21.

So, the 4 wheel drive, v8 engine (the 96 was a v6), ext cab, all the power stuff (locks, windows) cost me 3 mpg...

Not bad IMO.

I agree that resale (in this area) 2 wheel drive trucks don't do real well, but if I was going to do it again, I'd prob order a 2 wheel drive outfit since I keep my trucks for a long time. We bought the new truck for the ext cab. The 4 wheel drive did allow me to sell my old CJ5 so I was able to get down to 2 outfits.

But the 4x4 does require more maint and will cost more when it comes time to repair...

Also, I don't do limited slip/posi rearends in my truck as on ice, they will bite and hurt! (don't ask how i know

)

So, I find in my area and my driving style, that a FWD just does great when outfitted with snows from Nov - Apr. And I'm getting over 37 mpg!

Take care, Bill

PS: if the forecast says more than 9 inchs coming, I take the truck (like I have always done even before I had 4x4) just because the deeper snow does make the FWD have some trouble. Our powder is soft, but sometimes does not compress real well and driving 60+ miles with it blocking the headlights gets old @ 2am...

 

[Gurkha]

I have a made in India G- wagen clone called Gurkha with the OM 616 turbo engine, I also have a Nissan Patrol diesel, if I can tell you how many times I have truly appreciated the use of 4WD, this whole post would run out of space in a hurry, the G comes with front and rear locking diffs, an asset in ditches and combined with a high profile 17" tire, it has never met a terrain it found difficult, the Patrol too has been a great experience except it has no diff locks so ditches have to be taken with care, it has enough low end grunt from the super torquey HINO diesel so trailing is a breeze.

Yes you need 4WD, no life without it, you also need true clearance as well as sturdy diffs and tranny, not the flexi tubes which pass off in diffs of today's mall shower plastic SUVs. These new toys are mostly pretend, they have lost all the utility aspect of a 4WD and have become urbanised show vehicles, none feature diff locks, PTO or long travel suspension with super heavy duty rear diffs or tranny. Th G clone has 3.75T rear diffs, and nice and flexible tubular chassis which can be punished whole day and still come back alive.

 

[slalom44]

Back in the 1979, Chicago had a major snow storm that perilized the town for about a week. This is because the city ran out of salt and was not fully equipped to handle the snow removal. Jane Byrne made it a primary issue during the next mayoral election, and Mike Belandic lost the re-election primarily because of how ill-prepared he was the previous winter. Ever since then, if it snows an inch on the Dan Ryan Expressway, salt trucks dump two inches of salt down. It would be political suicide to allow this to happen again.

IMO, RWD in Chicago is fine as long as you have a good set of all-season tires. If you're really concerned about getting stuck, throw a set of tire chains in the back in case you have to put them on in an emergency.

 

[labman]

If you have to ask, chances are, no. What is it like when you are running into work? Are you plowing through deep snow, or is it already beat down into ice? Don't waste money on a high maintenance gas guzzler you will hardly ever need. What is the price of gas going to do next summer? I have been driving the same 2 wheel drive pickup since 1977. The few times I haven't been able to go anywhere, the 4WD's were either in the garage or stuck somewhere. You shouldn't have many hills around Chicago.

I suspect most 4WD's are bought for the prestige of having 4X4 on the side of the truck, and seldom have 4WD engaged.

If you are running mostly on ice, forget snow tires and concentrate on something with good wet traction.

Better yet, if you aren't going to be hauling cargo much, stick to a FWD car. Home Depot rents pickups for $20 for the first hour. You can quickly save that much with a 30+ mpg car over any truck.

 

[rjundi]

A set of good winter tires (not snow) tires like the blizzack's or Nokian studded will get you through anything in the winter. These gives better traction on both ice and snow.

 

[GimmeTorq]

I would love to stick with a FWD car but I'm gonna be needing the utility of a pick-up truck. I even considering a small SUV (RAV4, CR-V), but I don't think they would solve my new needs for carrying stuff around. If I could get the 4 inline engine in the Double Cab truck, I wouldn't hesitate in getting that one. I'm staying away from the big v-8 trucks. Gas prices are not going down anytime soon...

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by GimmeTorq:
I don't think they would solve my new needs for carrying stuff around.

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Buy a car and small trailer.

 

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by labman:
Better yet, if you aren't going to be hauling cargo much, stick to a FWD car. Home Depot rents pickups for $20 for the first hour. You can quickly save that much with a 30+ mpg car over any truck.

---

Totally agree. I have had 4WD's for at least the last 25 years. I worked for a utility and needed to get to work-but for the most part I wanted the security of getting home from work

.

You pay dearly for that security and 4WD isn't failsafe either. I have gotten stuck a few times in 25 years with 4WD. Gas you save on a FWD will more than pay for rental of a pickup.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Al:


You pay dearly for that security and 4WD isn't failsafe either. I have gotten stuck a few times in 25 years with 4WD. Gas you save on a FWD will more than pay for rental of a pickup.

---

The primary difference between 4WD and 2WD is that when you get stuck with 4WD it takes longer for help to get there.

 

[Scooby]

Gimmetorq:

I'll throw my 2 cents in. You are looking at one FINE truck in the Tacoma. I currently own my 4th and 5th Toyota's (2004 Tacoma and 2005 Sienna). The Tacoma is a double cab 4wd/ auto (with the enw generation you can get a 6 speed).

I bought this Taco in April, and only wish I had seen the photos prior to buying and I would have held off and bought a new one. They are SWEET!!!

In my region, (North Georgia) you can barely give away a two wheel drive truck. I bought this truck after selling a 2002 Tacoma 4wd/V6 Ext cab. I needed the extra room of the four door when our girl was born. I bought the 2002 for $21,500 and sold it two years later with 45k miles for $17,500. I advertised it and got about 15 calls in two days. I knew then I had priced it too low, but my new truck was due in the dealership any day, my daughter had just been born, and my left arm was in an immobilizer after shoulder surgery. I wasn't in the mood to hassle.

Anway...as far as 4wd. I have always had it because I commute over an hour into Atlanta. I work as a firefighter, and I have to be at work, any weather. I will never go without having at least one four wheel drive vehicle.

Again, I vote for the new Tacoma. Both the Frontier and Tacoma are new, but the Tacoma has a much better track record than the Frontier.

BTW: If you would like a 2004 Tacoma double cab, V6, 4wd, Lunar Mist with 14k miles, I'll gladly sell you mine and buy ME a new Taco.

 

[griz]

Allow me to answer the question you didn't ask, and join the FWD car chorus

I've had my V6 4x4 xtra cab Toyota for 9 years. Great truck. REally! I love it! Bought it when we lived in the woods of Alaska and hauled wood, water or dogs every couple of days. It made sense. However, now we (wife and I) never drive it. It just sits, even though we still live in a place that gets lots of snow and ice in winter. Our 4y old FWD 4dr hatchback with winter tires and traction control is equal or better in 95% of winter driving. The only thing its not better at is busting through 2ft high snow drifts and carrying a lot of wood. Its also way, way safer (death and injury stats on this are clear), has a better centre of gravity, gets 60% better fuel economy on the highway, and will absolutely smoke the truck in any performance statistic. I can fit an 8ft pipe in the car with the hatch closed (truck box is 6ft) and, with the seat down, a fullsize lazyboy and a side table. It also will take several bales of hay (though I admit i usually take the truck for this, because I can). Finally, lest I seem overly biased, allow me to note that the dogs also _greatly_ prefer the car.

I doubt I'll ever sell the truck. My emotional attachment exceeds its modest resale value. But I personally wouldn't have it as my primary vehicle unless busting through snowdrifts while carrying firewood. If I wasn't such a softy about the truck, I'd sell it and buy --or rent-- a trailer. Or use my neighbour's -- an 8ft trailer he hauls with his Accord (his might not be the best car to choose though, given the fragility of some Honda ATs)

You are considering a new truck, which is probably smoother riding and with possibly better fuel economy and safety than my yota. But I'd still take a carefully chosen car. Seems like there is an increasinly wide choice of hatchbacks and small wagons these days.

If you really need to carry a lot of stuff (landscaping or whatever) frequently, then ignore all of this long-winded message!!

[ January 16, 2005, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: griz ]

 

[MNgopher]

My last two trucks have been identical except for paint color and one being a 4x4.

My first truck was a '97 Ford F150. It was 2WD, open diff, and I never got it stuck anywhere I went. That included driving in 12" snowstorms with drifts. I ran 300 lbs of sand in the back and good set of all-terrain tires, and never had any trouble. Studded tires and chains are no-nos here too, btw. Sure, I was slow at times from stoplights, etc, but in those conditions, does it really matter? I averaged, over 163,000 miles, 17 mpg with that rig, and I sold it without too much trouble, even here in MN.

I replaced that truck with my '99 F150. It is identical to the previous truck, except its a 4x4. Of course, the change to a 4x4 meant I couldn't get the same gearing in the axles (my old truck had 3:08's, and the new one has 3.55's). I do like having 4x4, but but by no means is it required. As someone else posted, generally having a 4x4 makes it that much easier to get into even more trouble! On top of that, the 4x4 costs me an extra $100 a year on insurance, dropped my fuel mileage to 15 mpg, is more sluggish and less responsive, and gives me more stuff to maintain (although to date that has only been a transer case drain and fill).

If I had to do it over again, I'd probably have stuck with a 2WD truck. Take a long hard look and ask your self if you really have to have 4wd. A lot of those who claim they do really only want, not need to have 4WD.

 

[davefr]

Heck, growing up in Wyoming winters hardly anybody had 4WD. (most were barely able to afford a used 2WD pickup).

Everyone got around just fine 99% of the time. We threw on snow tires and put weight in the back. We also had a set of real chains for when it got real tough (not the "girly" cable chains).

The other factor was that we were trained how to drive in these conditions and part of this training was knowing when to stay home.

Nowdays I see these idiots in 4WD/SUV's that think they're invincible, until I pass them by because they're upside down in the ditch!! 4WD simple delays the time it take you to get stuck, but when you do get stuck (not "if") you really get stuck.

 

[GimmeTorq]

Scooby, good try...

I think you guys convinced me. I think I can get away with a towing-ready FWD car or FWD/AWD small SUV and a small trailer, save some cash in maintenance and gas.

I like the idea of a small SUV (CR-V like) with more clearance than a car and availability of both FWD and AWD.

Thanks for sharing your experience and time.

 

[buster]

Ummm if we get 2ft of snow this weekend, you better believe 4 wheel drive will be worth it!

The new Tacoma is awesome. Someone bought a new black sport model at my work. Nice truck. Wait a year though until they work the bugs out of it, if it has any.

 

[GimmeTorq]

2ft of snow??!! I wouldn't be driving...

Agreed, the new Tacoma is very nice (except maybe for the tacky and shiny center console that houses the climate controls/head unit). The new V6 puts out nice power. It is a solid vehicle getting nice reviews everywhere.

 

[Grossomotto]

4WD? I would rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.