Disaster on the 401 - HAZMAT

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Easy to say don't deliver from an armchair, but the reality is we have no idea what the drivers are here... Wonder what the penalty for missing the delivery window on a just in time delivery is to the transport company... For example...

And the weather forecasters always get the weather exactly right, right? Just like the last 10" storm we were supposed to get that turned into absolutely nothing... Looks like there was significantly more than just this truck on the road in those pictures...
 
Yes, they haul hydrofluoric acid. There is even more dangerous material going down the road, not to mention going over head.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Shannow
So what EXACTLY ARE they carrying then, seeing as you are clear that it's apples to oranges...what are the oranges that decompose to HF, specifically in this accident ?


Well first off, any report by the media about "chemicals" is often wrong. Actually I'll amend that and say usually wrong.



Leave it to the media to report only the worst case scenario so they can whip up as much outrage and fear as possible.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Teflon and frying pan anti stick coatings produce HF if heated high enough.


Was that the "Teflon flu"?
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
The drivers have to use more caution when transporting hazardous loads.


Especially in major, well predicted snow storms FFS...
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Shannow
So what EXACTLY ARE they carrying then, seeing as you are clear that it's apples to oranges...what are the oranges that decompose to HF, specifically in this accident ?


Well first off, any report by the media about "chemicals" is often wrong. Actually I'll amend that and say usually wrong.



Leave it to the media to report only the worst case scenario so they can whip up as much outrage and fear as possible.


Were they supposed to cover it up? I mean, [censored]?
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow

there's two chemicals that are transported around willy nilly, and dumped into municipal water supplies...

http://msds.orica.com/pdf/shess-en-cds-010-000031020001.pdf
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925037

Our local water treatment plant, because it's on a popular walking path isn't even fitted with the mandatory signage in the interests of public concern.


http://www.citynews.ca/2017/03/14/1-dead-dozens-treated-pile-chemical-spill-hwy-401/

Correction, now there's 3 that I know of.
http://www.cleartech.ca/msds/sillyacid.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Easy to say don't deliver from an armchair, but the reality is we have no idea what the drivers are here... Wonder what the penalty for missing the delivery window on a just in time delivery is to the transport company... For example...

And the weather forecasters always get the weather exactly right, right? Just like the last 10" storm we were supposed to get that turned into absolutely nothing... Looks like there was significantly more than just this truck on the road in those pictures...


This was a significant storm system that had already laid down a ton of snow well before hitting this area. Knowledge of the impact was pretty good. There was plenty of time to get that rig off the road.

But you are right about the JIT penalty, which causes exactly this type of scenario. Therein is where much of the issue lies.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Shannow

there's two chemicals that are transported around willy nilly, and dumped into municipal water supplies...

http://msds.orica.com/pdf/shess-en-cds-010-000031020001.pdf
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925037

Our local water treatment plant, because it's on a popular walking path isn't even fitted with the mandatory signage in the interests of public concern.


http://www.citynews.ca/2017/03/14/1-dead-dozens-treated-pile-chemical-spill-hwy-401/

Correction, now there's 3 that I know of.
http://www.cleartech.ca/msds/sillyacid.pdf


Yup:

Quote:
Barr says one of the transport trucks was leaking a toxic substance, which was later confirmed to be fluorosilicic acid.

Exposure to the chemical can cause irritation to the nose, throat, respiratory system, redness or swelling of the skin and severe eye irritation. Also, symptoms can take several hours to appear, which is why patients were being kept for observation.


Lovely eh?
smirk.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Easy to say don't deliver from an armchair, but the reality is we have no idea what the drivers are here... Wonder what the penalty for missing the delivery window on a just in time delivery is to the transport company... For example...

And the weather forecasters always get the weather exactly right, right? Just like the last 10" storm we were supposed to get that turned into absolutely nothing... Looks like there was significantly more than just this truck on the road in those pictures...


This was a significant storm system that had already laid down a ton of snow well before hitting this area. Knowledge of the impact was pretty good. There was plenty of time to get that rig off the road.

But you are right about the JIT penalty, which causes exactly this type of scenario. Therein is where much of the issue lies.


At end of the day today, our shipping manager got an angry call from one of our project managers because a customer on the east coast was upset that their shipment didn't arrive today. The job shipped on time last week with an LTL carrier and was supposed to arrive today but won't arrive until Friday or Monday now. We can't control the weather, but customers don't understand that. They want their stuff right now and don't care why it's not there yet. They still call and raise [censored] even though they should know things are going to be delayed.
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Shannow
So what EXACTLY ARE they carrying then, seeing as you are clear that it's apples to oranges...what are the oranges that decompose to HF, specifically in this accident ?


Well first off, any report by the media about "chemicals" is often wrong. Actually I'll amend that and say usually wrong.



Leave it to the media to report only the worst case scenario so they can whip up as much outrage and fear as possible.


Were they supposed to cover it up? I mean, [censored]?


Journalists should work to report stories completely and accurately, instead of only reporting on the worst case scenario. The story only mentioned one time that the chemicals COULD turn into HF is exposed to high heat, then the rest of the story was spent warning about the dangers of HF. They never did explain how much of the material actually turned into HF.
 
Last edited:
Leave it to the media (and the public and many posters on here included) to not have a clue about common chemicals and their actual hazards. There are tons of chemicals that are almost benign but when exposed to heat may release HF. That's very common.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
...
Journalists should work to report stories completely and accurately, instead of only reporting on the worst case scenario. The story only mentioned one time that the chemicals COULD turn into HF is exposed to high heat, then the rest of the story was spent warning about the dangers of HF. They never did explain how much of the material actually turned into HF.


Would you want to know that if your kids were behind that truck?
 
Out of 300M people, just how many people's kids would be behind the truck ?

That in most likelihood would NEVER have produced HF, and is a chemical that most consider safe enough to drink...deadly toxin in high doses, but the sheeple let it be added to water.

The role of the media has evolved such that it is keeping people in a low level state of terror/panic...and they are doing a good job, given the number of people who desire to be in that state 24/7.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Out of 300M people, just how many people's kids would be behind the truck ?


Canada doesn't have 300M people...

Quote:
That in most likelihood would NEVER have produced HF, and is a chemical that most consider safe enough to drink...deadly toxin in high doses, but the sheeple let it be added to water.


So? You could say the same thing about a truck that spilled radioactive nerve gas shells. "They probably wouldn't have exploded!" _--but it's still a massive mess on one of the world's busiest metropolitan areas. Those "sheeple" still had to sit in traffic because idiots were driving around HAZMAT in a major winter storm that the media also predicted and..

Quote:
The role of the media has evolved such that it is keeping people in a low level state of terror/panic...and they are doing a good job, given the number of people who desire to be in that state 24/7.


I'm no more defending the media than you guys sure are defending the idiots that ran this trucking company and their driver...
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
The one woth radioactive nerve gas probably would have had military involvement...


I'd hope so. But I believe they have used contractors to transport dangerous things as sort of incognito and under the radar (albeit with lots of tracking). And I doubt we have any nerve gas left, although they've found older stuff here like mustard and choline gas from WWI, buried under a D.C. neighborhood in one notorious case...
 
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