Disaster on the 401 - HAZMAT

[OVERKILL]

Link to news article

Quote:
Both eastbound and westbound 401 are closed near Landsdowne due to what Gananoque Police are calling a "mass casualty event" due to the high number of people exposed to hazardous material.

A multiple tractor trailer motor vehicle collision, along with several ancillary motor vehicle collisions, have been reported.

One of the transports was carrying a hazardous material, which turns int hydrofluoric acid if exposed to heat, says the Leeds Fire Department. Hydrofluoric acid is a highly toxic, highly corrosive and poisonous solution which is harmful to skin, lungs and eyes. Extrication of the driver was required and the transport is currently in a ditch. A hazmat team is on site, wearing masks. The transport was carrying 14,000 litres of this liquid, and most of it has leaked.

Several people, including firefighters and those who just happened to be in the area, have been covered in the hazardous liquid. The fire department has set up in the eastbound lanes for decontamination of those exposed. Those exposed are being instructed to disrobe and remove contact lenses if they have them.

The municipality is sending out two busses to pick up those stuck.

The 401 is expected to be closed for at least six hours

More information will be updated as it becomes available.


Why was this material not being transported by rail?

 

[simple_gifts]

Not every company has a rail spur; maybe it was and was being delivered to point of use.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Not every company has a rail spur; maybe it was and was being delivered to point of use.


You would think if that was the case that there would be some provision in place for hazardous driving conditions, given what was being transported, no? Just seems a tad idiotic to be moving that around with a greatly increased chance of incident due to weather

 

[DrRoughneck]

Hydrofluoric acid, made famous in "Breaking Bad".

 

[supton]

Looks like it was being moved in a snowstorm. For hazardous materials, is there anything that would prohibit that? I guess one could have an accident in the best of weather; but from an insurance standpoint I wonder if the insurance company might have a say against that.

 

[SirTanon]

No kidding. I'd say this falls under the category of "Who the heck thought this was a good idea??"

Hopefully everyone comes out of it safely.

 

[dlayman]

HF is once of the worst things to be exposed to. It eats skin. I worked with someone who had a small exposure to it, thought it was cleaned off properly, and the next morning his thumb bone was exposed. Ended up dead. This incident might end up being much worse than what anyone currently imagines. Why in the world was this being transported during terrible weather conditions? The truck drivers will do whatever it takes to deliver on time, to the detriment of everyone else. This needs to stop.

 

[Danno]

"One of the transports was carrying a hazardous material, which turns into hydrofluoric acid if exposed to heat"

If the article is accurate, the transport wasn't carrying HF acid - but the cargo might be called an ingredient.
Luckily it is a very cold day and hopefully the transport on fire and this material were separated.

As always with these type incidents, everything is OK, until it's not. Thinking Lac Magantic rail catastrophe.

 

[SirTanon]

Quote:
"One of the transports was carrying a hazardous material, which turns into hydrofluoric acid if exposed to heat"


Is it bad that this part of the article reminds me of that stuff in Superman III?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Danno
"One of the transports was carrying a hazardous material, which turns into hydrofluoric acid if exposed to heat"

If the article is accurate, the transport wasn't carrying HF acid - but the cargo might be called an ingredient.


Yep, was going to post similar.

Teflon and frying pan anti stick coatings produce HF if heated high enough.

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Link to news article

Quote:
Both eastbound and westbound 401 are closed near Landsdowne due to what Gananoque Police are calling a "mass casualty event" due to the high number of people exposed to hazardous material.

A multiple tractor trailer motor vehicle collision, along with several ancillary motor vehicle collisions, have been reported.

One of the transports was carrying a hazardous material, which turns int hydrofluoric acid if exposed to heat, says the Leeds Fire Department. Hydrofluoric acid is a highly toxic, highly corrosive and poisonous solution which is harmful to skin, lungs and eyes. Extrication of the driver was required and the transport is currently in a ditch. A hazmat team is on site, wearing masks. The transport was carrying 14,000 litres of this liquid, and most of it has leaked.

Several people, including firefighters and those who just happened to be in the area, have been covered in the hazardous liquid. The fire department has set up in the eastbound lanes for decontamination of those exposed. Those exposed are being instructed to disrobe and remove contact lenses if they have them.

The municipality is sending out two busses to pick up those stuck.

The 401 is expected to be closed for at least six hours

More information will be updated as it becomes available.


Why was this material not being transported by rail?


Its cost effective to transport by rail till there is a derailment like the one last weekend near where I live. Luckily there was no hazardous materials on board. Rail is the best mode of transport for large quantities but its also more dangerous when something happens due to the large quantities.

 

[dlayman]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Danno
"One of the transports was carrying a hazardous material, which turns into hydrofluoric acid if exposed to heat"

If the article is accurate, the transport wasn't carrying HF acid - but the cargo might be called an ingredient.


Yep, was going to post similar.

Teflon and frying pan anti stick coatings produce HF if heated high enough.


While Teflon does contain fluorine, there is very little chance of it releasing HF, and the quantities involved here make the comparison apples to oranges.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: dlayman
While Teflon does contain fluorine, there is very little chance of it releasing HF, and the quantities involved here make the comparison apples to oranges.


No probs, I was just saying that there are products that burn and release HF.

So what EXACTLY ARE they carrying then, seeing as you are clear that it's apples to oranges...what are the oranges that decompose to HF, specifically in this accident ?

 

[MNgopher]

Was going to say the same thing as some of the others - the article doesn't say hydrofluoric acid was being transported - only that something that if exposed to heat turns into that... There is a difference.

As far as the rail comment goes, how do we know this isn't a local delivery? Rails are great until you try to deliver to a location that doesn't have rail service. That last leg still has to be delivered by a truck more often than not.

As to transporting hazardous materials in bad weather, believe it or not it happens all the time... Think about it: If you live in a cold climate, and fuel deliveries are stopped, what happens? Not saying that it should be a free for all, but the world doesn't stop because the weather does...

 

[JTK]

With the amount of HAZMAT material rolling down the roads these days, we're lucky more disasters don't happen.

 

[Mr Nice]

The drivers have to use more caution when transporting hazardous loads.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
So what EXACTLY ARE they carrying then, seeing as you are clear that it's apples to oranges...what are the oranges that decompose to HF, specifically in this accident ?


Well first off, any report by the media about "chemicals" is often wrong. Actually I'll amend that and say usually wrong.

One chemical intermediate that is often transported is sodium bifluoride which when heated produces hydrogen fluoride and sodium fluoride, both of which are important industrial chemicals that are themselves more hazardous to transport than is the bifluoride. Of course I don't know whether that is it or not but it could be. The decomposition product isn't hydrofluoric acid but when the HF is mixed with water it will be.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Was going to say the same thing as some of the others - the article doesn't say hydrofluoric acid was being transported - only that something that if exposed to heat turns into that... There is a difference.

As far as the rail comment goes, how do we know this isn't a local delivery? Rails are great until you try to deliver to a location that doesn't have rail service. That last leg still has to be delivered by a truck more often than not.

As to transporting hazardous materials in bad weather, believe it or not it happens all the time... Think about it: If you live in a cold climate, and fuel deliveries are stopped, what happens? Not saying that it should be a free for all, but the world doesn't stop because the weather does...


We don't know if it was a local delivery, but given the knowledge of the weather system coming, if it was a local delivery, it would seem reasonable to postpone that delivery until the blizzard passed. If it was not a local delivery and this was a long-haul, they also should have waited for it to pass.

We live in a cold climate. We get snow all the time, this is Canada. There is still a huge difference between regular winter weather and a massive blizzard, which was the case here.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
One chemical intermediate that is often transported is sodium bifluoride which when heated produces hydrogen fluoride and sodium fluoride, both of which are important industrial chemicals that are themselves more hazardous to transport than is the bifluoride. Of course I don't know whether that is it or not but it could be. The decomposition product isn't hydrofluoric acid but when the HF is mixed with water it will be.


there's two chemicals that are transported around willy nilly, and dumped into municipal water supplies...

http://msds.orica.com/pdf/shess-en-cds-010-000031020001.pdf
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925037

Our local water treatment plant, because it's on a popular walking path isn't even fitted with the mandatory signage in the interests of public concern.

 

[simple_gifts]

Without chemicals life itself would be impossible.

The boys @ monsanto taught me that in 1977