Local Mazda Dealership sent home their recommendations to a widow woman at my office for her 2013 Mazda 3 Skyactiv car for a fuel injection system flush for $125. She asked me if it was needed and I told her that it would be something I would probably pass on if it did not effect her warranty. From my understanding the Direct Injection do not really benefit from such procedure and that carbon build up is in an area behind the valves that this type of flush would not reach. I am hoping that my advise was appropriate but thought I might check with others on this board who might have a Mazda or Direct Injection experience.
Direct Injection and Fuel Injection Flus???
- Thread starter mctmatt
- Start date
- Status
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Save the $125 for a possible top end clean if needed down the road. Spending $125 now will not guarantee her vehicle won't get deposits. Nor are these deposits a forgone conclusion.
...and use Top Tier fuel.
...and use Top Tier fuel.
Just did a little more research and some advise doing a so called Italian Style Tune-Up which consist of taken the car out to the Highway and then just flooring it for a good stretch saying you will get more benefit than doing an injection flush. I had to laugh as I really cannot see this wonderful woman "Flooring It" .
You are trying to catch them in the wrong statement that a Fuel Injector cleaning will solve carbon on valves.
but these are 2 separate things.
Just because a DI engine may be prone to carbon build up on valves, it doesn't mean that the fuel injectors always work perfectly.
There is some truth that a DI engine uses higher fuel injection pressures, so the cleanliness of a fuel injectors does have more of an effect on a DI engine.
So if they are saying Fuel injector cleaning is needed to clean the fuel injectors and ensure they are in top condition-and nothing else; it can have that benefit, just as it may have a benefit for a non DI car.
That being said, I'd rather pay $10 or $15 to use redline si-1 or gumout or other PEA additive as the preventitive fuel injector maintenance rather than paying $125 if there was no specific symptom.
but these are 2 separate things.
Just because a DI engine may be prone to carbon build up on valves, it doesn't mean that the fuel injectors always work perfectly.
There is some truth that a DI engine uses higher fuel injection pressures, so the cleanliness of a fuel injectors does have more of an effect on a DI engine.
So if they are saying Fuel injector cleaning is needed to clean the fuel injectors and ensure they are in top condition-and nothing else; it can have that benefit, just as it may have a benefit for a non DI car.
That being said, I'd rather pay $10 or $15 to use redline si-1 or gumout or other PEA additive as the preventitive fuel injector maintenance rather than paying $125 if there was no specific symptom.
Last edited:
CRC makes a product that claims to ameliorate this problem. A spray can you squirt into the intake (downstream of the MAP sensor). I have used it on my Passat but have no way of measuring if it works or not. At least, it does put a product on the intake valves so it might actually help.
raytseng thanks for the input on this matter. From what I can tell there is no specific issue requiring the fuel injection system be flushed as it appears to be more of a maintenance as the car is reaching 60,000 miles and this is an item they say needs to be done at that time. If a fuel additive such as you mentioned would help or do almost the same thing than I will be more than happy to suggest and help her with that.
If it's such a needed service why didn't my Mazda dealership tell me I needed it? I brought the car to them in December for recall service. It's a 2012 Mazda3 (Skyactiv) with 72,000 miles. They gave me the full "inspection report" after the service. All they had to say was that it looked like I might be needing tires soon (true). Maybe the dealership I visited was less interested in profiting from unnecessary services. As far as I'm concerned, I don't trust any shop, dealership or other, that tries to sell me bunk like that. Since I've done all the service myself they didn't even know what had been done, or not done. I gained a lot of respect for them, actually.
Instruct her that next time the dealer offers a "needed" service, have the service adviser point it out in the maintenance section of the owners manual.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Instruct her that next time the dealer offers a "needed" service, have the service adviser point it out in the maintenance section of the owners manual.
+1
Instruct her that next time the dealer offers a "needed" service, have the service adviser point it out in the maintenance section of the owners manual.
+1
I think Techron flavored gas or PEA added should keep the injectors clean in any case. The dirty valves can be avoided using a catch can. Also i recently read somewhere that R&D is going on with an additional injector in the intake tract to solve the problem with DI and dirty valves. it would work in concert on acceleration to SPRAY the valves clean.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Instruct her that next time the dealer offers a "needed" service, have the service adviser point it out in the maintenance section of the owners manual.
+1
I see no needed service for lifetime ATF and plenty of bitog'rs ignoring that.... and rightly so. lol
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Instruct her that next time the dealer offers a "needed" service, have the service adviser point it out in the maintenance section of the owners manual.
+1
I see no needed service for lifetime ATF and plenty of bitog'rs ignoring that.... and rightly so. lol
Originally Posted By: Kawiguy454
Also i recently read somewhere that R&D is going on with an additional injector in the intake tract to solve the problem with DI and dirty valves. it would work in concert on acceleration to SPRAY the valves clean.
Toyota/Lexus engines already have the D4S system in several different models which has both port and direct injection for a few years now. This includes the extremely exotic toyota CAMRY. However, as you can imagine this adds complexity and cost.
If other manufacturers can prevent the carbon buildup without needing the extra complexity they can save a lot-which by many reports seems to be happening with the latest generations in DI engines..
Also i recently read somewhere that R&D is going on with an additional injector in the intake tract to solve the problem with DI and dirty valves. it would work in concert on acceleration to SPRAY the valves clean.
Toyota/Lexus engines already have the D4S system in several different models which has both port and direct injection for a few years now. This includes the extremely exotic toyota CAMRY. However, as you can imagine this adds complexity and cost.
If other manufacturers can prevent the carbon buildup without needing the extra complexity they can save a lot-which by many reports seems to be happening with the latest generations in DI engines..
Last edited:
My dad just asked me about this for mom's Mazda6. It's a stupid service, a certified wallet-lightener. The injectors don't need cleaned, especially if you always use top tier fuel.
The CRC spray that "cleans the valves" is also made of freshly squeezed snake. If you have carbon intake deposits, NOTHING is removing them aside from a manual cleaning. Redbone, how often do you apply it and when do you plan on removing your intake to check cleanliness? My money is on CRC doing a solid not-a-darn-thing to reduce or remove deposits.
The CRC spray that "cleans the valves" is also made of freshly squeezed snake. If you have carbon intake deposits, NOTHING is removing them aside from a manual cleaning. Redbone, how often do you apply it and when do you plan on removing your intake to check cleanliness? My money is on CRC doing a solid not-a-darn-thing to reduce or remove deposits.
No dog in this fight, but as somebody said, clogged up injectors is one thing and valve deposits are another. It is more related to the quality of the gas you use, same deal with fuel filters.
I don't understand how DI can clog up with carbon and burn oil and still be considered cleaner burning.Jim- crack engineering to game the stats? and how is this different from VW doing it with software? Would some sort of water injection help this out?
I don't understand how DI can clog up with carbon and burn oil and still be considered cleaner burning.Jim- crack engineering to game the stats? and how is this different from VW doing it with software? Would some sort of water injection help this out?
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Instruct her that next time the dealer offers a "needed" service, have the service adviser point it out in the maintenance section of the owners manual.
+1
I think you need to use some common sense in terms of the $s they are estimating for a service. If they say I'm going to replace your PCV valve for $5.99; or a new serpentine belt for $20 while doing a $600 timing belt job, maybe you go ahead and approve it instead of making a fuss about that item not being in manual.
But if they're trying to tack on a $125 ticket work order, while you're in for a simple oil change, then maybe you object.
I think more importantly, if you feel you're getting taken advantage of and have to go through this negotiation dance every time; maybe it's time to find a new dealer or mechanic that you can trust so you don't need to have to audit everything.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Instruct her that next time the dealer offers a "needed" service, have the service adviser point it out in the maintenance section of the owners manual.
+1
I think you need to use some common sense in terms of the $s they are estimating for a service. If they say I'm going to replace your PCV valve for $5.99; or a new serpentine belt for $20 while doing a $600 timing belt job, maybe you go ahead and approve it instead of making a fuss about that item not being in manual.
But if they're trying to tack on a $125 ticket work order, while you're in for a simple oil change, then maybe you object.
I think more importantly, if you feel you're getting taken advantage of and have to go through this negotiation dance every time; maybe it's time to find a new dealer or mechanic that you can trust so you don't need to have to audit everything.
Last edited:
Hyundai recommended this service for my sonata at 30k, to the tune of $300.
I laughed.
I may do the CRC treatment myself, as the intake valves are known to get gunked up.
I use top tier gas and techron, and keep the oil clean.
I laughed.
I may do the CRC treatment myself, as the intake valves are known to get gunked up.
I use top tier gas and techron, and keep the oil clean.
Originally Posted By: andyd
No dog in this fight, but as somebody said, clogged up injectors is one thing and valve deposits are another. It is more related to the quality of the gas you use, same deal with fuel filters.
I don't understand how DI can clog up with carbon and burn oil and still be considered cleaner burning.Jim- crack engineering to game the stats? and how is this different from VW doing it with software? Would some sort of water injection help this out?
It is cleaner burning - with DI comes increased power and reduced emmisions.
The injector tips can become caked with carbon as they are inside the combustion chamber. Just like carbon buildup on piston tops, using high-quality fuel is all you can do to keep them clean.
No dog in this fight, but as somebody said, clogged up injectors is one thing and valve deposits are another. It is more related to the quality of the gas you use, same deal with fuel filters.
I don't understand how DI can clog up with carbon and burn oil and still be considered cleaner burning.Jim- crack engineering to game the stats? and how is this different from VW doing it with software? Would some sort of water injection help this out?
It is cleaner burning - with DI comes increased power and reduced emmisions.
The injector tips can become caked with carbon as they are inside the combustion chamber. Just like carbon buildup on piston tops, using high-quality fuel is all you can do to keep them clean.
Originally Posted By: JustinH
Hyundai recommended this service for my sonata at 30k, to the tune of $300.
I laughed.
I may do the CRC treatment myself, as the intake valves are known to get gunked up.
I use top tier gas and techron, and keep the oil clean.
That's all you need to do. The CRC cleaner will accomplish the same thing as the dealer "service" - exactly nothing.
Hyundai recommended this service for my sonata at 30k, to the tune of $300.
I laughed.
I may do the CRC treatment myself, as the intake valves are known to get gunked up.
I use top tier gas and techron, and keep the oil clean.
That's all you need to do. The CRC cleaner will accomplish the same thing as the dealer "service" - exactly nothing.
- Status
Similar threads
