This topic may have been covered before but not really sure how to word it for a search so here goes... If you had a car from new and ran conventional oil lets use Pennzoil Conventional and changed it say every 4,000 miles and lets say your wife had the same car same motor and ran synthetic but changed it every 7,000 miles then you took apart the motors at 150,000 miles do you think there will really be any oil related wear difference? I ask as I am really re thinking my synthetic oil use? My father seems to get big millage out of every car he drives with simple cheep conventional oil changes "usually Formula Shell conventional" at around 4,000 mile changes so I often wonder why do I bother to spend big $$ on oil?
Dino Vs Synthetic ?
- Thread starter Camprunner
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Originally Posted By: Camprunner
at 150,000 miles do you think there will really be any oil related wear difference?
I would say, no, unless maybe if we're talking about some high strung aggressively driven turbo DI engine.
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so I often wonder why do I bother to spend big $$ on oil?
At only 7K miles, you are not getting your money's worth out of a good synthetic. Extend it out to 10K+ miles, and now we're talking. You should also factor in the cost of saved time by not having to do more frequent oil changes.
Also, if you find it on sale, synthetic isn't much more expensive than mineral.
at 150,000 miles do you think there will really be any oil related wear difference?
I would say, no, unless maybe if we're talking about some high strung aggressively driven turbo DI engine.
Quote:
so I often wonder why do I bother to spend big $$ on oil?
At only 7K miles, you are not getting your money's worth out of a good synthetic. Extend it out to 10K+ miles, and now we're talking. You should also factor in the cost of saved time by not having to do more frequent oil changes.
Also, if you find it on sale, synthetic isn't much more expensive than mineral.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Also, if you find it on sale, synthetic isn't much more expensive than mineral.
Everytime someone mentions this I always wonder whether they're aware that dino goes on sale just the same as synthetic doeas or if they're just trying to justify their choices at all cost (no pun intended).
Also, if you find it on sale, synthetic isn't much more expensive than mineral.
Everytime someone mentions this I always wonder whether they're aware that dino goes on sale just the same as synthetic doeas or if they're just trying to justify their choices at all cost (no pun intended).
KrisZ, you make a good point.
For me personally, I do one oil change per year. Even if it costs me $40 in oil, in the grand scheme of things, it is not "big $$" by any stretch of imagination. I guess I just don't worry about it. I run whatever my engine manufacturer calls for, which happens to be synthetic in my case. If there was a mineral oil that met the spec, I would have no problem running it either.
For me personally, I do one oil change per year. Even if it costs me $40 in oil, in the grand scheme of things, it is not "big $$" by any stretch of imagination. I guess I just don't worry about it. I run whatever my engine manufacturer calls for, which happens to be synthetic in my case. If there was a mineral oil that met the spec, I would have no problem running it either.
For 36 years I have done 10K OCIs with Mobil 1 oils and never had an engine that showed wear or sludge. Quality synthetic oils in the long run are cheaper than dino because of the doubleing of OCIs. Not to mention the other advantages of synthetics.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Also, if you find it on sale, synthetic isn't much more expensive than mineral.
Everytime someone mentions this I always wonder whether they're aware that dino goes on sale just the same as synthetic doeas or if they're just trying to justify their choices at all cost (no pun intended).
Actually the % savings on getting Syn is better than a dino on sale, especially if you take a mileage consideration. (not talking about closeouts/clearance sales... different animal)
For example, the "lesser Syn" options often go for a very cheap price. Havoline Syn and Mobile Super has been on sale from AAP for $19.99 with el-cheap filter (with coupon, $22.99 without coupon). NAPA will run a $3.49 Syn sale and there is always the walmart Super Tech Syn jug for $17.47 (local here at least). Basically you can get Syn options for $3.50-4.00... which is about the same as a lot of other conventional offerings, even on sale.
For example, compare the other conventional oils on "sale" from AAP... Castrol GTX with a tearolator classic for $22.99 So Syn can be cheaper/same price as dino when "on sale". I can upgrade the M Super with a tearolator for $2, still making it cheaper
Now, on clearance, things get murky and favor dino a bit more. Often you can get dino for $2ish or less on "clearance". Syn still command as above $3 in most cases. Thus, the cost per miles starts favoring dino again despite the lower syn costs.
My favorite is still getting M1 jug for $20 on "clearance". Win.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Also, if you find it on sale, synthetic isn't much more expensive than mineral.
Everytime someone mentions this I always wonder whether they're aware that dino goes on sale just the same as synthetic doeas or if they're just trying to justify their choices at all cost (no pun intended).
Actually the % savings on getting Syn is better than a dino on sale, especially if you take a mileage consideration. (not talking about closeouts/clearance sales... different animal)
For example, the "lesser Syn" options often go for a very cheap price. Havoline Syn and Mobile Super has been on sale from AAP for $19.99 with el-cheap filter (with coupon, $22.99 without coupon). NAPA will run a $3.49 Syn sale and there is always the walmart Super Tech Syn jug for $17.47 (local here at least). Basically you can get Syn options for $3.50-4.00... which is about the same as a lot of other conventional offerings, even on sale.
For example, compare the other conventional oils on "sale" from AAP... Castrol GTX with a tearolator classic for $22.99 So Syn can be cheaper/same price as dino when "on sale". I can upgrade the M Super with a tearolator for $2, still making it cheaper
Now, on clearance, things get murky and favor dino a bit more. Often you can get dino for $2ish or less on "clearance". Syn still command as above $3 in most cases. Thus, the cost per miles starts favoring dino again despite the lower syn costs.
My favorite is still getting M1 jug for $20 on "clearance". Win.
Originally Posted By: tig1
For 36 years I have done 10K OCIs with Mobil 1 oils and never had an engine that showed wear or sludge. Quality synthetic oils in the long run are cheaper than dino because of the doubleing of OCIs. Not to mention the other advantages of synthetics.
And you buy less filters, too. Win-Win for the syns!
For 36 years I have done 10K OCIs with Mobil 1 oils and never had an engine that showed wear or sludge. Quality synthetic oils in the long run are cheaper than dino because of the doubleing of OCIs. Not to mention the other advantages of synthetics.
And you buy less filters, too. Win-Win for the syns!
conventional oil has come a long way since Group 1 (dewaxed base oil), and now with API-SN/ILSAC-GF5 specifications, they should be properly named as "semi-syn" for it does contain a significant amount of Group III base oil in the blend (remember this: even those so-called full-syn oil is a blend of various grade base and additives to acheive the desired results.
If you search the rest of the most recent postings carefully, it shouldn't be all that difficult for you to find out that most conventional oils contains GpIII in their blend (search PQIA oil reports).
Just like the other said: the reason that oil marketers still try to label them discretely in the form of "conventional", "semi-syn" and "full-syn" mainly has to do with marketing and profit margin (yeah, they can charge significantly more on the market by basically calling certain blend as "full syn").
More so than ever: I'm a fan of national brand name "conventional" oil on all my cars thesedays, for I really don't see the need (and no benefits to them) to pay extra for full-syn just for the sake of bragging rights.....afterall: I'll cheep.
lastly: the calling of the latest "conventional" oil as dino sounds rather demeaning, methinks.
My 2c's worth.
Q.
If you search the rest of the most recent postings carefully, it shouldn't be all that difficult for you to find out that most conventional oils contains GpIII in their blend (search PQIA oil reports).
Just like the other said: the reason that oil marketers still try to label them discretely in the form of "conventional", "semi-syn" and "full-syn" mainly has to do with marketing and profit margin (yeah, they can charge significantly more on the market by basically calling certain blend as "full syn").
More so than ever: I'm a fan of national brand name "conventional" oil on all my cars thesedays, for I really don't see the need (and no benefits to them) to pay extra for full-syn just for the sake of bragging rights.....afterall: I'll cheep.
lastly: the calling of the latest "conventional" oil as dino sounds rather demeaning, methinks.
My 2c's worth.
Q.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
KrisZ, you make a good point.
For me personally, I do one oil change per year. Even if it costs me $40 in oil, in the grand scheme of things, it is not "big $$" by any stretch of imagination. I guess I just don't worry about it. I run whatever my engine manufacturer calls for, which happens to be synthetic in my case. If there was a mineral oil that met the spec, I would have no problem running it either.
This wasn't directed at you, it was more of a general statement as I've seen it posted on here on several occasions. Sorry for being so vague.
Personally I think it's the paradigm that people have or lack of paradigm change. Sort of like not noticing a particular car model, until you get one and all of the sudden you see them everywhere.
I think that's what happens here. People interested in synthetics will only be interested in sales on synthetic oil and most likely ignore everything else. So in their mind the dino goes on sale less often.
KrisZ, you make a good point.
For me personally, I do one oil change per year. Even if it costs me $40 in oil, in the grand scheme of things, it is not "big $$" by any stretch of imagination. I guess I just don't worry about it. I run whatever my engine manufacturer calls for, which happens to be synthetic in my case. If there was a mineral oil that met the spec, I would have no problem running it either.
This wasn't directed at you, it was more of a general statement as I've seen it posted on here on several occasions. Sorry for being so vague.
Personally I think it's the paradigm that people have or lack of paradigm change. Sort of like not noticing a particular car model, until you get one and all of the sudden you see them everywhere.
I think that's what happens here. People interested in synthetics will only be interested in sales on synthetic oil and most likely ignore everything else. So in their mind the dino goes on sale less often.
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
KrisZ, you make a good point.
For me personally, I do one oil change per year. Even if it costs me $40 in oil, in the grand scheme of things, it is not "big $$" by any stretch of imagination. I guess I just don't worry about it. I run whatever my engine manufacturer calls for, which happens to be synthetic in my case. If there was a mineral oil that met the spec, I would have no problem running it either.
Amen!
KrisZ, you make a good point.
For me personally, I do one oil change per year. Even if it costs me $40 in oil, in the grand scheme of things, it is not "big $$" by any stretch of imagination. I guess I just don't worry about it. I run whatever my engine manufacturer calls for, which happens to be synthetic in my case. If there was a mineral oil that met the spec, I would have no problem running it either.
Amen!
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
KrisZ, you make a good point.
For me personally, I do one oil change per year. Even if it costs me $40 in oil, in the grand scheme of things, it is not "big $$" by any stretch of imagination. I guess I just don't worry about it. I run whatever my engine manufacturer calls for, which happens to be synthetic in my case. If there was a mineral oil that met the spec, I would have no problem running it either.
This wasn't directed at you, it was more of a general statement as I've seen it posted on here on several occasions. Sorry for being so vague.
Personally I think it's the paradigm that people have or lack of paradigm change. Sort of like not noticing a particular car model, until you get one and all of the sudden you see them everywhere.
I think that's what happens here. People interested in synthetics will only be interested in sales on synthetic oil and most likely ignore everything else. So in their mind the dino goes on sale less often.
I have made this point various times...
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
KrisZ, you make a good point.
For me personally, I do one oil change per year. Even if it costs me $40 in oil, in the grand scheme of things, it is not "big $$" by any stretch of imagination. I guess I just don't worry about it. I run whatever my engine manufacturer calls for, which happens to be synthetic in my case. If there was a mineral oil that met the spec, I would have no problem running it either.
This wasn't directed at you, it was more of a general statement as I've seen it posted on here on several occasions. Sorry for being so vague.
Personally I think it's the paradigm that people have or lack of paradigm change. Sort of like not noticing a particular car model, until you get one and all of the sudden you see them everywhere.
I think that's what happens here. People interested in synthetics will only be interested in sales on synthetic oil and most likely ignore everything else. So in their mind the dino goes on sale less often.
I have made this point various times...
I think the dino solution would be the best in the long run.
It's not so much which oil is going to wear out.
I think the answer there is neither as long as your buying good quality oil.
It's more about which contaminant in your oil are you going to catch before it becomes a problem.
Therefore, I like the shorter OCI's using dino because it lets you keep an eye on the overall health of a vehicle.
It's not so much which oil is going to wear out.
I think the answer there is neither as long as your buying good quality oil.
It's more about which contaminant in your oil are you going to catch before it becomes a problem.
Therefore, I like the shorter OCI's using dino because it lets you keep an eye on the overall health of a vehicle.
At first I was skeptical of t g e extended drains on synthetic oil but after being a member here for a few years and reading the uoa that members post I'm starting to understand that synthetic oil changes in the 8 to 10 thousand mile range are probably the more cost effective means of oil changes. I think that is the way that I am going to maintain my vehicles is with synthetic oil and long oci compared to conventional and shorter oci. Plus you get the added benefit of quicker start up lubrication with synthetic oil.
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
It's more about which contaminant in your oil are you going to catch before it becomes a problem.
"Its more about"...based on...what?
You just voiced a personal opinion. The dollars and cents benefits of syns can be quantified.
It's more about which contaminant in your oil are you going to catch before it becomes a problem.
"Its more about"...based on...what?
You just voiced a personal opinion. The dollars and cents benefits of syns can be quantified.
My understanding from 3 different technicians, i.e. actual mechanics, at my local Lexus dealer is that the real and true advantage of a genuine synthetic, e.g, Redline or Amsoil, is that the synthetic oil has more "clinginess" after shutdown with the result that there is much less engine wear at every initial start-up where the car has sat overnight or for several hours. They also told me that whenever they were inside an engine for whatever reason they could always tell whether it had run synthetic or conventional based on the amount of deposits. They said that even engines where they knew that proper intervals had been followed on conventional oil that there was always more residue than in engines that had run synthetic. Although these conversations originally occurred some 7 or 8 years ago, I just talked to 2 of them again in connection with the purchase of my new to me very low miles Infiniti EX35 and they reaffirmed that if I wanted it to really last I should use a genuine synthetic mainly because of what they feel is the difference in start up lubrication. These guys added that if you were running mainly highway miles that that would be one situation where if extreme conditions like extremely hot climates or trailer towing were not involved that conventional oil would do just about as well, but only in that one situation. Because my wife's and my driving both involves lots of short trips and lots of starts, I have stayed synthetic ever since. Considering that many conventional oils now sell for $5.00 and more per quart, paying $9 or $10 or even a little more for a true synthetic doesn't seem like too much at all for extra protection and peace of mind. And, there is also the issue of time lost in servicing if you're running conventional instead of synthetic because if you're putting on lots of miles, cutting your oil changes by half or more can over the long term save a lot of time because there's probably at least an hour of total time involved in every oil change no matter who, how or where it gets done.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Use what you choose as long as it meets specs, there is no right or wrong answer.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Actually the % savings on getting Syn is better than a dino on sale, especially if you take a mileage consideration. (not talking about closeouts/clearance sales... different animal)
That is beginning to be the case up here, too. Dino rollbacks are a lot less deep than the latest synthetic ones.
Actually the % savings on getting Syn is better than a dino on sale, especially if you take a mileage consideration. (not talking about closeouts/clearance sales... different animal)
That is beginning to be the case up here, too. Dino rollbacks are a lot less deep than the latest synthetic ones.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Down here, Mobil Super 5000 is $12.47/5qt jug at WMart, not even a rollback. If your OCI is limited to 5k miles max by a warranty and your specs allow conventional, why not use it if this is your choice?
Since buying the Camry 18 months ago, I've bought five Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 syn OCs (3 in, 2 stashed) and each cost under $12 (on sale w/rebate) incl. filter....
These synthetic OCs are in fact cheaper than I have paid for any dino OC since I first started driving, 45 years and nearly 3/4 million miles ago...and so it amazes me that anyone would bother to calculate how much OCs cost...or ask whether to use dino when better syns cost so little.
These synthetic OCs are in fact cheaper than I have paid for any dino OC since I first started driving, 45 years and nearly 3/4 million miles ago...and so it amazes me that anyone would bother to calculate how much OCs cost...or ask whether to use dino when better syns cost so little.
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