Dino 5W-30...worthless?

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Good Morning; First, to Dr. T, & J - sorry I flamed out on you in my recycled oil post. Bad day... So here's the question (I've asked it before, but not as directly): is there any point to dino 5W-30? From all I've read on here it shears down to a 20wt quickly due to all the visc improvers it needs to meet the spec. Sounds like a lot of varnish/sludging potential to me. Does it offer that big of an advantage at startup over 10W-30 at low temps (like 0-30F)? Big enough to make the shearing worth it? Does anybody have any experiences (good or bad) with running 10W-30 at low temps? Seems like if you think you need a 5W-30 because of the temp (less than 0F) you might as well use a synthetic for the winter. Or a well constructed 5W-20 since that's what your 5W-30 will be anyway? I would have never thought to ask the question except that my Chevy with a 3.4 pushrod V6 calls for 5W-30 year round, while my Volvo (made in SWEDEN, where its COLD) with a DOHC engine calls for 10W30 in temps down to -4F. Having a hard time seeing where that makes sense. So why do we even have dino 5W-30? CAFE strikes again? Matt [ May 08, 2003, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Matt89 ]
 
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GREAT POST! I've had all of these questions floating around in my head for a few weeks, but I never had a chance to pull it all together and post! Hopefully this will generate some discussion. [Smile]
 
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quote:
From all I've read on here it shears down to a 20wt quickly due to all the visc improvers it needs to meet the spec. Sounds like a lot of varnish/sludging potential to me.
At which point does it shear down? Does it happen before 3k miles or perhaps a little bit beyond like 4k? It would be helpful to know since I just put 5 quarts of 5w30 dino into a new car. Thanks. [Smile]
 
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I think it is great if you are doing 3000 mile changes and need the cold weather 5W or like the extra economy it is suppose to give. Even 5000 miles would probably be OK.
 

Matt89

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Kiko; I would have to go back to look at the UOA's, but I do recall Patman making several posts about UOAs that had sheared down from 30 to 20 wt (around 4K I think). Maybe he can elaborate on that for you. I should also add that my Chevy "allows" 10W-30 down to 0F, and the Volvo "allows" 5W-30 if the temps are below 86F. I guess I'm trying to decide if I'm gaining anything by running 5W in the Chevy year-round as GM suggests, or running 5W in the Volvo in the winter. I'm planning on running a 5000 mile interval (or 6 months if I don't rack up too many miles) and I thought the 10W might be a better pick for that. Thanks for your thoughts so far. Certainly not a life & death problem, but an interesting one. Matt
 

MolaKule

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quote:
At which point does it shear down? Does it happen before 3k miles or perhaps a little bit beyond like 4k? It would be helpful to know since I just put 5 quarts of 5w30 dino into a new car. Thanks.
Due to the economical additive packages in OTC dino's, I have seen shearing as early as 1,800 miles and as late as 3,2000 miles. As one has suggested, changing or adding oil often will keep the crud out and replenish additves.
 
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Other then mileage (MPG) the difference between a synthetic 5W and 10W is about nil in ability to flow way below zero. Not an issue. Mostly better mileage for 5W IMO, I see no other advantages warranty aside.
 
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I use 5W30 in winter, although the dealer stuck some in that I'll be running until June on the last oil change (Castrol). Although I prefer 10W30 because of less shearing, I've got to ask what harm it does to shear down to a 20 weight? So far I don't think any UOA's have shown anything worse and I'd think things would thicken up a bit if the oil was left in the engine.
 

CJH

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Call me crazy if you like, but I just follow the manufacturer's recommendations in the owners manual. I bought a Honda Civic Si (1.6 liter, 160 Hp, 8,000 rpm redline) new in 2000. I drive 50 miles to work each way, so I am on Honda's "normal" maintenance schedule of 7,500 mile oil change intervals. The car has been on Pennzoil dino 5W30 since new. Now has 59,000 miles on it and doesn't use a drop or make any noises. I personally think most of you guys go over the edge on the change intervals. Nothing to loose except time and money.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by csandste: I use 5W30 in winter, although the dealer stuck some in that I'll be running until June on the last oil change (Castrol). Although I prefer 10W30 because of less shearing, I've got to ask what harm it does to shear down to a 20 weight? So far I don't think any UOA's have shown anything worse and I'd think things would thicken up a bit if the oil was left in the engine.
1) Current 5W-20 oil is not standard API-SL oil...Ford and Honda have tougher specs for it to meet on top of SL. The label on the oil will show that it meets these Ford and Honda specs. 2) A while back Terry told us that in his experience analyzing oils, an oil that shears to a lower vis but oxidizes back up to original vis does not protect the engine as well as it originally did. 3) The advantages of 5W-30 over 10W-30---a) needed in cold weather, b) slightly better fuel economy, too slight for most of us to see, but helps the car maker's CAFE penalty payments. Disadvantages of 5w-30 vs. 10W-30---does shear down to a lower vis sooner, other factors kept constant. Me...I use the highest viscosity oil my owner's manual allows. Ken
 
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quote:
Originally posted by CJH: Call me crazy if you like, but I just follow the manufacturer's recommendations in the owners manual. I bought a Honda Civic Si (1.6 liter, 160 Hp, 8,000 rpm redline) new in 2000. I drive 50 miles to work each way, so I am on Honda's "normal" maintenance schedule of 7,500 mile oil change intervals. The car has been on Pennzoil dino 5W30 since new. Now has 59,000 miles on it and doesn't use a drop or make any noises. I personally think most of you guys go over the edge on the change intervals. Nothing to loose except time and money.
CJH, You could probably run 7,500 changes on the cheapest stuff around for the first 100,000 and not have any problems. It's the next 100,000 where the oil used and general maintenance come into play. I'm not going off on you though, but next time you change the oil, would you mind doing an oil analysis? I'm very curious to see what dino 5w-30 looks like after 7,500 miles and if it is still holding up. Justin.
 

Matt89

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CJH; I used to commute like that...I'd probably give 7500 a try if I still did. Unfortunately, these days I'm the picture of severe service - the wife zipping 1 mile to Kroger and back. 3000 miles on the clock in the last 6 months, and only because we did a 1000 mile trip in there. Has anyone run 10W30 in cold (0-30F) weather? How'd it work out for you? Matt
 

Patman

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quote:
Originally posted by Matt89: CJH; I used to commute like that...I'd probably give 7500 a try if I still did. Unfortunately, these days I'm the picture of severe service - the wife zipping 1 mile to Kroger and back. 3000 miles on the clock in the last 6 months, and only because we did a 1000 mile trip in there. Has anyone run 10W30 in cold (0-30F) weather? How'd it work out for you? Matt
I ran 10w30 Schaeffer Supreme this winter, and there were many days below 0F overnight, with a couple as low as -10. The engine started up just fine. My oil analysis results were not all that bad, although I am pretty sure 5w30 would've shown better results. That's why on my next interval I'll be going to 5w30 Schaeffer Supreme and using that year round instead. I have noticed that 5w30 Schaeffer doesn't thin out all that easily, so it should work just fine for me in the summer.
 
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I had Castrol GTX 10W30 this winter in my truck. And I had a lot more noises on start-up, it sounded like valve adjusters didn't get enough oil for 2-3 min, and truck was in garage overnight with outside temp 20-25 F. I don't remember these noises in winters before and I usually use 5w30 at winter on this truck. These were much less these noises as temp gone up. I changed oil at end of March and put in Havoline 10w30. Now I don't hear these noises on start-up at all. Manual say 10w30 is prefer oil, and if colder then 30F 5w30 can be used. Of course, I will never use 10w30 at winter again, or may be it is just Castrol thing...
 
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Yes, If you do anyting other then around town driveing then I belive that 5W30 is functional useless nless it is synthetic and then I still do not really have a warm place in my heart for it. I know an awful lot of people that use 5W30 and change their oil at 3000 miles like clock work. Most get to about 100,000 then start haveing lifter problems, rod knock, oil usage.....These are not people that drive their cars or trucks like the just stole it either.
 
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Hey Matt..no problem. Yeah...I still think 5-30/10-30 dino (or syth.) are fine for 3k oil changes especially U.S. cars (Dodge Durango aside) and when under warranty. The difference being slight. However, with the vehicles you've mentioned.... Euro. vehicles usually spec. a thicker oil in general...so 10-30 is not uncommon down to ~-30C....kinda makes sense when the pour points are into the -40's...
 

Matt89

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Thanks for everybody's input. As usual, it looks like everyone's experiences are different depending on the engine, the oil, etc - big surprise [Big Grin] What I've gotten out of it, though, is that there just might be some benefit in using 5W-30 for winter and 10W-30 for summer. Makes my maintenance plan a little more complicated, oh well. I'll give it a try and we'll see...Could be that for these engines it doesn't matter one way or the other. Thanks; Matt
 

CJH

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quote:
Originally posted by JohnBrowning: Yes, If you do anyting other then around town driveing then I belive that 5W30 is functional useless nless it is synthetic ...
Did you see the test results on the LS1 project? They are testing Mobil 1 5W30 at 1,000 mile intervals in a V8 Camaro. Last I saw, they were up to 9,000 miles and the oil still tested good. Please check this out and see if you still feel synthetic 5w30 is worthless. This testing convinced me to switch my cars to synthetic oil.
 
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