Just wondering since many modern engines are speced for 5w20 or 0w20 in the USA and 5w30 or 10w30 elsewhere in the world if the manufacturer uses a different VCT (cam phaser) calibrated to that weight of oil or if they use the same across the board and this thought is simply way too OCD about the effects of viscosity on VVT systems. Does anyone here know?
Different VVT calibration for different oil weight
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Which exact engine are you thinking of, as most will run on anything from a 15 to a 50? If the engine was designed for an X/20 it will be approved for an X/20 outside the US. You sometimes get different exhaust systems between each country, but they don't adjust much else unless there is some kind of fuel related issue for a petrol car, like the need to use alcohol in Brazil.
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Originally Posted By: Doog
Just wondering since many modern engines are speced for 5w20 or 0w20 in the USA and 5w30 or 10w30 elsewhere in the world if the manufacturer uses a different VCT (cam phaser) calibrated to that weight of oil or if they use the same across the board and this thought is simply way too OCD about the effects of viscosity on VVT systems. Does anyone here know?
This is a very good question, I have been wondering about that myself..
Just wondering since many modern engines are speced for 5w20 or 0w20 in the USA and 5w30 or 10w30 elsewhere in the world if the manufacturer uses a different VCT (cam phaser) calibrated to that weight of oil or if they use the same across the board and this thought is simply way too OCD about the effects of viscosity on VVT systems. Does anyone here know?
This is a very good question, I have been wondering about that myself..
Its hard to say in a few words but..The only function oil provides to VVT is the hydraulics to advance/retard/turn the controller/cam gear/actuator which advances and retards the cams which changes the time when the intake and exhaust valves open and close. The oil pressure and flow direction is controlled by the Oil Control Valve which takes commands from the ECU which is making valve timing decisions based on readings from the Camshaft Position Sensor, Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor, Crankshaft Position Sensor, TPS, MAF, and Vehicle Speed Signal.
To answer your question more directly, the VVT is calibrated by sensors throughout the engine, not the oil. However if the oil was too thick, or a deposit problem impacting flow this could impact the ability for the controller to turn, incorrectly setting valve timing.
To answer your question more directly, the VVT is calibrated by sensors throughout the engine, not the oil. However if the oil was too thick, or a deposit problem impacting flow this could impact the ability for the controller to turn, incorrectly setting valve timing.
every VVT system i've ever seen was closed loop controlled... meaning there is at least one camshaft position sensor for the ECM to verify that the cam(or cams) are at the amount of advance/retard that is being commanded. if they don't match, it corrects for it. too much correction MAY set a DTC.
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Its hard to say in a few words but..The only function oil provides to VVT is the hydraulics to advance/retard/turn the controller/cam gear/actuator which advances and retards the cams which changes the time when the intake and exhaust valves open and close. The oil pressure and flow direction is controlled by the Oil Control Valve which takes commands from the ECU which is making valve timing decisions based on readings from the Camshaft Position Sensor, Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor, Crankshaft Position Sensor, TPS, MAF, and Vehicle Speed Signal.
To answer your question more directly, the VVT is calibrated by sensors throughout the engine, not the oil. However if the oil was too thick, or a deposit problem impacting flow this could impact the ability for the controller to turn, incorrectly setting valve timing.
I am wondering if viscosity could alter the ability of the cam phaser to turn. I am wondering how sensitive the phaser is to viscosity.
Its hard to say in a few words but..The only function oil provides to VVT is the hydraulics to advance/retard/turn the controller/cam gear/actuator which advances and retards the cams which changes the time when the intake and exhaust valves open and close. The oil pressure and flow direction is controlled by the Oil Control Valve which takes commands from the ECU which is making valve timing decisions based on readings from the Camshaft Position Sensor, Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor, Crankshaft Position Sensor, TPS, MAF, and Vehicle Speed Signal.
To answer your question more directly, the VVT is calibrated by sensors throughout the engine, not the oil. However if the oil was too thick, or a deposit problem impacting flow this could impact the ability for the controller to turn, incorrectly setting valve timing.
I am wondering if viscosity could alter the ability of the cam phaser to turn. I am wondering how sensitive the phaser is to viscosity.
Originally Posted By: skyship
Which exact engine are you thinking of, as most will run on anything from a 15 to a 50?
Toyota 2GR-FE and 2AZ-FE. The 2GR-FE is up until 2013 speced for 5w30 with a 5000 OCI. The 2013 is now 0w20 synthetic with a 10,000 OCI.
The 2AZ-FE is 5w20 now 0w20. I am wondering if 5w30 synthetic would work.
Which exact engine are you thinking of, as most will run on anything from a 15 to a 50?
Toyota 2GR-FE and 2AZ-FE. The 2GR-FE is up until 2013 speced for 5w30 with a 5000 OCI. The 2013 is now 0w20 synthetic with a 10,000 OCI.
The 2AZ-FE is 5w20 now 0w20. I am wondering if 5w30 synthetic would work.
Exxon Mobil in Europe recommends Mobil 1 0W-40 for the 2003- model 2AZ-FE engine.
Alternative recommendations, Engine (Petrol), >2000: 38°C, 5w30; -18°C to >38°C, 10w30; -12°C to >38°C, 15w40; -7°C to >38°C, 20W-50
http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.p...5&brand=106
Alternative recommendations, Engine (Petrol), >2000: 38°C, 5w30; -18°C to >38°C, 10w30; -12°C to >38°C, 15w40; -7°C to >38°C, 20W-50
http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.p...5&brand=106
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2AZ-FE is an older design. Been around for a decade. Original spec was 5w30. The 0w20 spec on the newer years is CAFE only. Can thick oil impact the controller? Yes. But its not the primary reason the controller may not turn. Several other issues would be ahead of that. Is 5w30 too thick for the controller? No, not even close. So you could if you wanted to. Make it a Full Synthetic if you do.
Why are you asking if you can run 5w30?
Why are you asking if you can run 5w30?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Doog
Just wondering since many modern engines are speced for 5w20 or 0w20 in the USA and 5w30 or 10w30 elsewhere in the world if the manufacturer uses a different VCT (cam phaser) calibrated to that weight of oil or if they use the same across the board and this thought is simply way too OCD about the effects of viscosity on VVT systems. Does anyone here know?
Why would it matter? Ambient temperature, ergo, oil temperature plays a much larger role in actual viscosity than the grade on the bottle.
Just wondering since many modern engines are speced for 5w20 or 0w20 in the USA and 5w30 or 10w30 elsewhere in the world if the manufacturer uses a different VCT (cam phaser) calibrated to that weight of oil or if they use the same across the board and this thought is simply way too OCD about the effects of viscosity on VVT systems. Does anyone here know?
Why would it matter? Ambient temperature, ergo, oil temperature plays a much larger role in actual viscosity than the grade on the bottle.
Originally Posted By: Doog
Just wondering since many modern engines are speced for 5w20 or 0w20 in the USA and 5w30 or 10w30 elsewhere in the world if the manufacturer uses a different VCT (cam phaser) calibrated to that weight of oil or if they use the same across the board and this thought is simply way too OCD about the effects of viscosity on VVT systems. Does anyone here know?
The mechanical part of these systems generally are very tolerant of oil selection. Newer models are even using vane type variable displacement pumps to more accurately control the pressure regardless of viscosity.
Since the operation of these is computer controlled the export versions can easily get a different tune. That's all they need.
Just wondering since many modern engines are speced for 5w20 or 0w20 in the USA and 5w30 or 10w30 elsewhere in the world if the manufacturer uses a different VCT (cam phaser) calibrated to that weight of oil or if they use the same across the board and this thought is simply way too OCD about the effects of viscosity on VVT systems. Does anyone here know?
The mechanical part of these systems generally are very tolerant of oil selection. Newer models are even using vane type variable displacement pumps to more accurately control the pressure regardless of viscosity.
Since the operation of these is computer controlled the export versions can easily get a different tune. That's all they need.
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Its hard to say in a few words but..The only function oil provides to VVT is the hydraulics to advance/retard/turn the controller/cam gear/actuator which advances and retards the cams which changes the time when the intake and exhaust valves open and close. The oil pressure and flow direction is controlled by the Oil Control Valve which takes commands from the ECU which is making valve timing decisions based on readings from the Camshaft Position Sensor, Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor, Crankshaft Position Sensor, TPS, MAF, and Vehicle Speed Signal.
To answer your question more directly, the VVT is calibrated by sensors throughout the engine, not the oil. However if the oil was too thick, or a deposit problem impacting flow this could impact the ability for the controller to turn, incorrectly setting valve timing.
I am wondering if viscosity could alter the ability of the cam phaser to turn. I am wondering how sensitive the phaser is to viscosity.
8-15cst at 100C is lost in the 40KV range for starters, and then down to whatever crazy starting temperatures those in the Northern hemisphere want to live at (let alone start cars at)
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Its hard to say in a few words but..The only function oil provides to VVT is the hydraulics to advance/retard/turn the controller/cam gear/actuator which advances and retards the cams which changes the time when the intake and exhaust valves open and close. The oil pressure and flow direction is controlled by the Oil Control Valve which takes commands from the ECU which is making valve timing decisions based on readings from the Camshaft Position Sensor, Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor, Crankshaft Position Sensor, TPS, MAF, and Vehicle Speed Signal.
To answer your question more directly, the VVT is calibrated by sensors throughout the engine, not the oil. However if the oil was too thick, or a deposit problem impacting flow this could impact the ability for the controller to turn, incorrectly setting valve timing.
I am wondering if viscosity could alter the ability of the cam phaser to turn. I am wondering how sensitive the phaser is to viscosity.
8-15cst at 100C is lost in the 40KV range for starters, and then down to whatever crazy starting temperatures those in the Northern hemisphere want to live at (let alone start cars at)
My thinking was that the ecu would look at ambient, coolant temp. and water temp and assume the oil should be close to a certain range of viscosity based on the weight oil they spec.
So if it s looking for a 20 weight and your running a 40 or 50 weight, would this alter the action?
For me the lack of completely understanding how vvt works is my biggest stumbling block, even with leakyseals explanation, I still dont completely get it. What I am getting out of this is running a heavier or lighter oil probably wont effect it and that is really what we need to know. Thank you,
So if it s looking for a 20 weight and your running a 40 or 50 weight, would this alter the action?
For me the lack of completely understanding how vvt works is my biggest stumbling block, even with leakyseals explanation, I still dont completely get it. What I am getting out of this is running a heavier or lighter oil probably wont effect it and that is really what we need to know. Thank you,
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: coolbird101
My thinking was that the ecu would look at ambient, coolant temp. and water temp and assume the oil should be close to a certain range of viscosity based on the weight oil they spec.
So if it s looking for a 20 weight and your running a 40 or 50 weight, would this alter the action?
For me the lack of completely understanding how vvt works is my biggest stumbling block, even with leakyseals explanation, I still dont completely get it. What I am getting out of this is running a heavier or lighter oil probably wont effect it and that is really what we need to know. Thank you,
That wouldn't work because even oils of the same SAE grade can have wildly different viscosities at below operating temperature depending on VI.
My thinking was that the ecu would look at ambient, coolant temp. and water temp and assume the oil should be close to a certain range of viscosity based on the weight oil they spec.
So if it s looking for a 20 weight and your running a 40 or 50 weight, would this alter the action?
For me the lack of completely understanding how vvt works is my biggest stumbling block, even with leakyseals explanation, I still dont completely get it. What I am getting out of this is running a heavier or lighter oil probably wont effect it and that is really what we need to know. Thank you,
That wouldn't work because even oils of the same SAE grade can have wildly different viscosities at below operating temperature depending on VI.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: coolbird101
My thinking was that the ecu would look at ambient, coolant temp. and water temp and assume the oil should be close to a certain range of viscosity based on the weight oil they spec.
So if it s looking for a 20 weight and your running a 40 or 50 weight, would this alter the action?
For me the lack of completely understanding how vvt works is my biggest stumbling block, even with leakyseals explanation, I still dont completely get it. What I am getting out of this is running a heavier or lighter oil probably wont effect it and that is really what we need to know. Thank you,
That wouldn't work because even oils of the same SAE grade can have wildly different viscosities at below operating temperature depending on VI.
Good point.
Originally Posted By: coolbird101
My thinking was that the ecu would look at ambient, coolant temp. and water temp and assume the oil should be close to a certain range of viscosity based on the weight oil they spec.
So if it s looking for a 20 weight and your running a 40 or 50 weight, would this alter the action?
For me the lack of completely understanding how vvt works is my biggest stumbling block, even with leakyseals explanation, I still dont completely get it. What I am getting out of this is running a heavier or lighter oil probably wont effect it and that is really what we need to know. Thank you,
That wouldn't work because even oils of the same SAE grade can have wildly different viscosities at below operating temperature depending on VI.
Good point.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: coolbird101
My thinking was that the ecu would look at ambient, coolant temp. and water temp and assume the oil should be close to a certain range of viscosity based on the weight oil they spec.
So if it s looking for a 20 weight and your running a 40 or 50 weight, would this alter the action?
For me the lack of completely understanding how vvt works is my biggest stumbling block, even with leakyseals explanation, I still dont completely get it. What I am getting out of this is running a heavier or lighter oil probably wont effect it and that is really what we need to know. Thank you,
That wouldn't work because even oils of the same SAE grade can have wildly different viscosities at below operating temperature depending on VI.
Exactly, and a big reason these systems are so tolerant of lubricant variations from the exact spec.
Originally Posted By: coolbird101
My thinking was that the ecu would look at ambient, coolant temp. and water temp and assume the oil should be close to a certain range of viscosity based on the weight oil they spec.
So if it s looking for a 20 weight and your running a 40 or 50 weight, would this alter the action?
For me the lack of completely understanding how vvt works is my biggest stumbling block, even with leakyseals explanation, I still dont completely get it. What I am getting out of this is running a heavier or lighter oil probably wont effect it and that is really what we need to know. Thank you,
That wouldn't work because even oils of the same SAE grade can have wildly different viscosities at below operating temperature depending on VI.
Exactly, and a big reason these systems are so tolerant of lubricant variations from the exact spec.
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Why are you asking if you can run 5w30?
I want to run only 1 oil and maybe do a bulk purchase (30 gal)
Why are you asking if you can run 5w30?
I want to run only 1 oil and maybe do a bulk purchase (30 gal)
Originally Posted By: bar1
Exxon Mobil in Europe recommends Mobil 1 0W-40 for the 2003- model 2AZ-FE engine.
Alternative recommendations, Engine (Petrol), >2000: 38°C, 5w30; -18°C to >38°C, 10w30; -12°C to >38°C, 15w40; -7°C to >38°C, 20W-50
http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.p...5&brand=106
Its weird that they recommend a 40 weight oil for the 2AZ-FE but when I look up anything with the same engine on castrol's or valvoline's UK and Australian sites, they recommend a 5w30 or 10w30
Exxon Mobil in Europe recommends Mobil 1 0W-40 for the 2003- model 2AZ-FE engine.
Alternative recommendations, Engine (Petrol), >2000: 38°C, 5w30; -18°C to >38°C, 10w30; -12°C to >38°C, 15w40; -7°C to >38°C, 20W-50
http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.p...5&brand=106
Its weird that they recommend a 40 weight oil for the 2AZ-FE but when I look up anything with the same engine on castrol's or valvoline's UK and Australian sites, they recommend a 5w30 or 10w30
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