Different gaskets: Different "grip" on the engine block?

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Sep 4, 2015
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Munich, Germany
Gentlemen,

there is a ever and ever ongoing discussion about a particular car that can loose filters. The car maker has adressed it and offers a oil filter solely for this car with much higher torques specs compared to all other cars and filters of the car maker: 7/8 turn or 15 - 18 lb/ft or 20 - 24 Nm.
This filter has the typical Asian style "P" shape gasket.

A few owners that dare to try different filters reports that they use(d) aftermarket filters with a regular square shaped rubber gasket and dont have problems. They just installed the filter follwing the instructions 3/4 turn and had zero problems.

While i think about it, could it be that there is a difference in "Grip" of the different rubber gaskets to the engine Block? The P-shaped gasket has a much smaller contact patch compared to a regular square shaped rubber gasket. Thinking about it like a small tire and a wider tire on the road...
Noteworthy is also that the P-shaped gasket is likely to be more compressible.

Any insighst about this, the "Grip" of oil filters to the engine? Am i wrong or is there a difference between different gasket designs?
 
some seals swell a bit, and this makes filters tighter during operation. If you get seals that shrink they might get loose.

I get to undue dozens of factory fit filters a year and I can tell you no factory filter is ever torqued to spec though. They are all mega tight. If you are not happy with the filter torque specs, do q bit like the OEM and tighten them more.
 
It's not rocket science as to which sealing material is compatible with hot hydrocarbons and what the gasket compression should be to withstand a specific pressure. So if it leaks after that then it's likely a failure in one of these aspects.

Regarding torque that's why I like the Toyota/Denso method of the "torque stop" filter designs. Some people on here have speculated that over time the steel can might abrade an aluminum filter mount, but in 20+ years and nearly 450,000 miles that hasn't happened on my old Sienna, nor has it happened on my almost as old ECHO.
 
Gentlemen,

there is a ever and ever ongoing discussion about a particular car that can loose filters. The car maker has adressed it and offers a oil filter solely for this car with much higher torques specs compared to all other cars and filters of the car maker: 7/8 turn or 15 - 18 lb/ft or 20 - 24 Nm.
This filter has the typical Asian style "P" shape gasket.

A few owners that dare to try different filters reports that they use(d) aftermarket filters with a regular square shaped rubber gasket and dont have problems. They just installed the filter follwing the instructions 3/4 turn and had zero problems.

While i think about it, could it be that there is a difference in "Grip" of the different rubber gaskets to the engine Block? The P-shaped gasket has a much smaller contact patch compared to a regular square shaped rubber gasket. Thinking about it like a small tire and a wider tire on the road...
Noteworthy is also that the P-shaped gasket is likely to be more compressible.

Any insighst about this, the "Grip" of oil filters to the engine? Am i wrong or is there a difference between different gasket designs?

Torquing a P-gasket typed filter to 15-18 ft-lbs is going to force the can tight against the filter mounting seat. P-gasket type filters are designed to "bottom out" the can on the seat.

If you really want to ensure it doesn't loosen up, so something like this. Just need a hose clamp and some wire.

Oil Fi;ter Safety Wire Setup.jpg
 
Got it.
I think my problem was that i never really payed attention if the filter with the P-shaped gasket actually really bottemed out and make metall-to-metall contact. I allways used my torque wrench, set it to the maximum specified torque and clicked it down. Job done.
I was allways under the impresson that theses filters also only make rubber-to-metall contact.

Thanks for the information! And, by the way, " Toyota-Denso torque stop". Learned something new.
 
Got it.
I think my problem was that i never really payed attention if the filter with the P-shaped gasket actually really bottemed out and make metall-to-metall contact. I allways used my torque wrench, set it to the maximum specified torque and clicked it down. Job done.
I was allways under the impresson that theses filters also only make rubber-to-metall contact.
Every P-gasket type oil filter I've used bottoms the can out on the mount. Look at your filter mount, you'll probably see the marks in the metal where the filter can has been contacting the mount.
 
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