Diesel blended with Bio Diesel....

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accent2012

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Hey guys.

I was driving the work car (VW Passat 2.0 Turbo Diesel) and I stopped to get some fuel at a Murphy gas station. When I pulled up I notice a sign saying that the diesel fuel contains bio-diesel and "consult your owners manual prior to using," typical statement.

It didn't say by how much was blended or if it was 100% bio-diesel, there simply was no sign, just the disclaimer. The typical low sulfur signs, etc. were present.

Has anybody else noticed this at their gas station?

Are there any federal standards as to how much is in such a blend? Is such a blend, whatever the percentage, safe for modern diesel engines?

I haven't noticed this elsewhere so this may be just isolated to this gas station. I'll avoid it for now. Any information is much appreciated!
 
check out the presentations in this thread:

Link

Depending on the blend % (b5, b20 etc) you should have no issues - if anything better lubricity protection vs ULSD#2. Based on the map from the presentation the Florida mandate is less than 5% which means it probably has a range of 0-5 which changes seasonally.

In Canada we have mostly B5 from April-October and then zero biodiesel content in winter months due to cold flow issues related to biodiesel blends. Other issues are typically lower BTU's which means a slight drop in fuel economy but it produces less CO2 which is good for the air. Your Passat probably won't even notice the change and you may have even already been using a B2 or B5 blend and not even realized it.
 
Bio blends have been out and used for a long time now. I find it questionable when people say it was louder or whatever. Placebo effect perhaps...

About four years ago when I drove cross country, I tanked up with bio blends from 2-20% at most every fuel stop. Stations around here have had bio for a long time too.

There are ASTM analytical procedures for biodiesel, but I don't know that an official mixture rate is established. I was under the impression that bio blends were acceptable in the design of all euro diesels, and perhaps more than that.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris142
I saw the same thing in arizona a few weeks ago. My engine was much louder on that fuel for sure.


here you can buy 100% only at special stations,
most station have 10% bio or so.

Chris, you engine noise could have been cuz of the cetane rating of the fuel [low?]

overall bio is GOOD for you engine, as it lubricates the engine/pump etc.
but bio will clean out your tank too, so if you have a gunky tank it will clog your fuel filter faster, so you might have to change it sooner.

Did your mpg go down with the bio diesel?
 
So I can just pump and go? I don't have to worry about pre-detonation, etc. as if it were a gas engine using E85 - I'm still a diesel noob.

Only thing I know about biodiesel is that you need lots of fuel filters and depending on where you get it, your exhaust may smell like fries
smile.gif
.
 
VW allows use up to 5% biodiesel according to the manual. In Illinois where the state has mandated higher biodiesel blends, VW has said the vehicle warranty will not be affected.
 
I'm not trying to throw water on the fire and I do like biodiesel, however, a manufacturer stating the use of biodiesel will not affect warranty isn't being one-hundred percent truthfull....while the warranty will not be affected, parts/repairs caused by fuel-related failures will not be covered under warranty. Engine manufacturers cannot and will not warranty failures for the use of "bad" fuel/not-approved fuel.....watered, stale, poorly refined, whatever...they don't cover it.

There are already warnings concerning DPF-equipped diesels against the use of too-high concentration of biodiesel/"bad" fuel and depending on the manufacturer, fuel testing may result.
 
I'd verify your state laws on the subject. Here in Oregon we have a 5% mandate (10% if you're in the Portland metro area) and as such, stations do not need to advertise their level as it is implied. HOWEVER, if the levels are greater than 5% (or 10% in Portland), then it must be specified. Every state is different though.

In your VW, you DO NOT WANT over 5% bio-diesel blending as it uses post-cylinder-injection for the DPF regens... and since bio-diesel has such a high flash point, it wont vaporize during this process. And don't let someone tell you that VW "will not void warranty for bio-diesel", because they absolutely will. They (and all auto mfr's) are very specific in their manuals regarding acceptable bio-fuel usage (5% for VW). If you have an engine issue that could be related to fuel, they will test the fuel to ensure it complies. If it does not, then they have every right to refuse warranty service as long as they can prove the fuel caused whatever issue you are having. Just to be fair, this applies to standard diesel as well. It's then up to you to "take it up" with the fuel station you got your fuel from.

Kinda silly right? Bio-diesel emits far less emissions and was supposed to be the original fuel for all diesel engines, but now our brain-dead EPA has created emissions laws that strap machinery on the exhaust streams which create an overall incompatibility with most bio-diesel processes. Derp.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: accent2012
So I can just pump and go? I don't have to worry about pre-detonation, etc. as if it were a gas engine using E85 - I'm still a diesel noob.

Only thing I know about biodiesel is that you need lots of fuel filters and depending on where you get it, your exhaust may smell like fries
smile.gif
.


Yes, you can just pump and go. But if you have noticed louder combustion noise, that is an effect caused by lower cetane. Longer ignition delay after the fuel is injected causes a larger quantity of it to autoignite, leading to higher noise.

I don't think it's biodiesel exhaust that smells like french fries. I think that's only engines running on straight vegetable oil. I talked to a guy once with a 7.3 Powerstroke that ran on vegetable oil, and the exhaust on that truck definitely smelled like fries. He would also run that truck on diesel fuel / waste oil mixtures of up to 50%, so he was kind of a lunatic.
 
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
Bio-diesel emits far less emissions and was supposed to be the original fuel for all diesel engines, but now our brain-dead EPA has created emissions laws that strap machinery on the exhaust streams which create an overall incompatibility with most bio-diesel processes. Derp.


Rudolph diesel DID NOT use biodiesel.
 
links please ?

Biodeisel was the original fuel for diesels, but the inventor of the diesel didn't use diesel until "later"...I'm intrigued.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
links please ?

Biodeisel was the original fuel for diesels, but the inventor of the diesel didn't use diesel until "later"...I'm intrigued.


No disrespect, but I'm not going to flood this thread with hundreds of links just the sake of proving "i'm right and you're wrong". Just google it... you'll see.
 
I've googled it, and can't find him using biodiesel...mineral oil and vegetable (peanut oil)....you don't have to flood, just one decent one will do, on how his engines were designed for alkyl esters of vegetable oil...aka biodiesel.
 
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