Didn't Even Know These Existed (VW Passat)

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW


The only thing the two systems have in common is that they are on the rear of the engine.



Not quite. Another thing they have in common is that they both look really, really awful.

I mean shockingly, stunningly, spectacularly and insanely bad.

That's just my impression though.

I really would NOT like to have any experience with which to back it up.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Not quite. Another thing they have in common is that they both look really, really awful.

I mean shockingly, stunningly, spectacularly and insanely bad.

That's just my impression though.

I really would NOT like to have any experience with which to back it up.


Experience (or lack thereof) seems to be a recurring theme here. Can you show me a DOHC V8 timing chain system you would consider "good?"

Like all things on the internet, the issues being discussed here are blown greatly out of proportion.

 

[Cujet]

While technically interesting, I see no real-world advantage to this configuration.

 

[RooflessVW]

The real world advantage is that they are short front to back; a requirement for how Audo/VW configures it's Torsen Quattro/4Motion. This is the same reason they went from a front mounted timing belt to a rear mounted timing chain on the V8.

The W8 takes about as much room front-to-back as their V6. The W12 about as much as the V8.

They also sound completely awesome.

 

[Olas]

There's nothing rare or unicorn about a w8 4mo passat, nor about the bbs wheels.
BBS and Ronal make all the OEM vw wheels, W8 engine was in the line up for years, and 4mo is more hindrance an help.

The Passat R36, however, is rarer and faster and cooler and all together better.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: Olas
There's nothing rare or unicorn about a w8 4mo passat, nor about the bbs wheels.
BBS and Ronal make all the OEM vw wheels, W8 engine was in the line up for years, and 4mo is more hindrance an help.

The Passat R36, however, is rarer and faster and cooler and all together better.


Must be the difference between continents. The W8 B5.5 is indeed rare here in the US, and the unique BBS wheels are uncommon too. I'm not saying BBS or Ronal VW wheels are uncommon, just that the ones on the W8 Passat are.

I will however agree that the B6 R36 is a much better car in every way, with one exception: there is no Passat cooler than a blue 6speed W8 B5.5 wagon. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW

Experience (or lack thereof) seems to be a recurring theme here. Can you show me a DOHC V8 timing chain system you would consider "good?"


Nope. Only DOHC I've had experience with was a 4 cyl 2.0L in a Ford Sierra.

It had nasty bakelite-like embrittled plastic chain guides, which broke.

Those things above appear to have quite a lot more of them, in a configuration that'll tend to put them under quite a lot more stress.

Call me reactionary, but (lots of) critical engine components made out of neo-bakelite do not a warm and fuzzy feeling give me.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
there is no Passat cooler than a blue 6speed W8 B5.5 wagon. Just my opinion, of course.

... i think if you go on the diesel forums, there is a passat ('99 or '98, memory is bad) stick-shift wagon with a "gas" fuels reservoir:
i thought he reported 1,000+ miles per diesel tank...

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I drove a then brand new Phaeton from Las Vegas to San Diego and then to Katy, Texas. I have no idea what happened to those cars but I'd have to say it was the nicest luxury car I've even driven. One thing I really liked was that it was an anonymous car. No one knew what it was and it did not attract any undue attention. For me that is priceless.

Because it disappeared from the market it would be a no-go for me but other wise I'd really like to own and drive one. I've owned several luxury cars of the past years and none of them compare to the Phaeton. It appears that there's a lot more to success in the market place than just a good car.


Anonimity isn't good in that segment. the owners have money and want to show it.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Another used car I will not touch with a stick.

 

[Lolvoguy]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I drove a then brand new Phaeton from Las Vegas to San Diego and then to Katy, Texas. I have no idea what happened to those cars but I'd have to say it was the nicest luxury car I've even driven. One thing I really liked was that it was an anonymous car. No one knew what it was and it did not attract any undue attention. For me that is priceless.

Because it disappeared from the market it would be a no-go for me but other wise I'd really like to own and drive one. I've owned several luxury cars of the past years and none of them compare to the Phaeton. It appears that there's a lot more to success in the market place than just a good car.


Anonimity isn't good in that segment. the owners have money and want to show it.


I respectfully disagree with that comment.

Many owners who "have money" don't always show it off. it's those owners with the Volvo S80 with T6 Vs. BMW/Merc/Porsche etc.
That's the great thing about Volvo's, they are often driven by uber wealthy people who dont' want to draw attention to themselves or their cars. Crazy? I know! (heck, if I was uber wealthy I'd wanna show it off too). Many just want to enjoy their car without making a spectacle of themselves.

FYI, if I had the means, I'd also pick up a gently used T6 for daily use.

just my .02 cents

 

[Blokey]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW

Can you show me a DOHC V8 timing chain system you would consider "good?"


I submit the Ford Coyote V8 is about as simple a DOHC V8 timing chain system as you can get:

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: Blokey
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW

Can you show me a DOHC V8 timing chain system you would consider "good?"


I submit the Ford Coyote V8 is about as simple a DOHC V8 timing chain system as you can get:

It's still has 4 chains: two long and prone to stretch with 4 very large plastic guides (larger than the Audi V8's!) and two small chains with hydraulic tensioners.

Let's also not forget the high failure rate of Ford's cam phasers, either.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I drove a then brand new Phaeton from Las Vegas to San Diego and then to Katy, Texas. I have no idea what happened to those cars but I'd have to say it was the nicest luxury car I've even driven. One thing I really liked was that it was an anonymous car. No one knew what it was and it did not attract any undue attention. For me that is priceless.

Because it disappeared from the market it would be a no-go for me but other wise I'd really like to own and drive one. I've owned several luxury cars of the past years and none of them compare to the Phaeton. It appears that there's a lot more to success in the market place than just a good car.


Anonimity isn't good in that segment. the owners have money and want to show it.


I respectfully disagree with that comment.

Many owners who "have money" don't always show it off. it's those owners with the Volvo S80 with T6 Vs. BMW/Merc/Porsche etc.
That's the great thing about Volvo's, they are often driven by uber wealthy people who dont' want to draw attention to themselves or their cars. Crazy? I know! (heck, if I was uber wealthy I'd wanna show it off too). Many just want to enjoy their car without making a spectacle of themselves.

FYI, if I had the means, I'd also pick up a gently used T6 for daily use.

just my .02 cents


Well, I would want something anonymous mself. I'm really not into showing off what I've got, or don't.. But I'm definitely in the minority.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
RUN, RUN REALLY FAST AWAY

seriously, that is one of the worst engines in the world to fix

http://jalopnik.com/here-s-why-the-v8-audi-s4-is-an-awful-used-car-1676466510

https://totallythatstupid.com/2013/03/05/2003-volkswagen-passat-w8-hilarious-or-hand-grenade/


I'm sure you realize you posted two different engines in your links there...

Maybe not. I've been around VW for quite some time and have never heard of a W8 failing in the way the article describes, either.

Do you have any real-world experience or just click-bait anecdotal junk?


Doesn't the W8 Passat require the front subframe to be dropped to change oxygen sensors?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
The real world advantage is that they are short front to back; a requirement for how Audo/VW configures it's Torsen Quattro/4Motion. This is the same reason they went from a front mounted timing belt to a rear mounted timing chain on the V8.

The W8 takes about as much room front-to-back as their V6. The W12 about as much as the V8.

They also sound completely awesome.


Pablum. Because, you know...Audi built a V8 car with Quattro for more than twenty years before that abortion came along!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: Blokey
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW

Can you show me a DOHC V8 timing chain system you would consider "good?"


I submit the Ford Coyote V8 is about as simple a DOHC V8 timing chain system as you can get:

It's still has 4 chains: two long and prone to stretch with 4 very large plastic guides (larger than the Audi V8's!) and two small chains with hydraulic tensioners.

Let's also not forget the high failure rate of Ford's cam phasers, either.


But they do not require dismantling the entire engine compartment to service them...

The 4.6 and 5.4 DOHC timing chains are as bulletproof as their SOHC counterparts.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Doesn't the W8 Passat require the front subframe to be dropped to change oxygen sensors?

By the book, yes. Your point?

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Pablum. Because, you know...Audi built a V8 car with Quattro for more than twenty years before that abortion came along!

Yes, and Audi also had an inline 5 with Quattro, with a teeny radiator jammed into the passenger side of the grille... Not ideal. There were several V8 cars with Quattro/4Motion... You misunderstood my post.

I was attempting to explain the advantages of the "W" engine versus a conventional "V," which was the question asked. The reason the W8 was installed in the B5.5 was simply because they could. The 4.2 V8 would not fit into the B5.5 chassis, and wanting to have a top of the line 8 cylinder Passat, they made the W8. The staggered dual VR4 setup allowed them to fit an 8 cylinder in a V6 hole.

Likewise, the W12 fits into the same vehicles designed for the 4.2 V8: the A8, Phaeton, and Bentley. It fits because the dual VR6 setup allows more cylinders go take up less space front-to-back.

"VR" was developed for this very reason; to have a V6 comparable in size with a 4 cylinder, to be installed in transverse-mounted FWD vehicles.

The 4.2 V8 went to a rear timing chain setup solely so that it could fit into the engine bay of the B7 S4. The timing belt and accessory belt setup on the previous V8 took up too much room in the front.

 

[Lolvoguy]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I drove a then brand new Phaeton from Las Vegas to San Diego and then to Katy, Texas. I have no idea what happened to those cars but I'd have to say it was the nicest luxury car I've even driven. One thing I really liked was that it was an anonymous car. No one knew what it was and it did not attract any undue attention. For me that is priceless.

Because it disappeared from the market it would be a no-go for me but other wise I'd really like to own and drive one. I've owned several luxury cars of the past years and none of them compare to the Phaeton. It appears that there's a lot more to success in the market place than just a good car.


Anonimity isn't good in that segment. the owners have money and want to show it.


I respectfully disagree with that comment.

Many owners who "have money" don't always show it off. it's those owners with the Volvo S80 with T6 Vs. BMW/Merc/Porsche etc.
That's the great thing about Volvo's, they are often driven by uber wealthy people who dont' want to draw attention to themselves or their cars. Crazy? I know! (heck, if I was uber wealthy I'd wanna show it off too). Many just want to enjoy their car without making a spectacle of themselves.

FYI, if I had the means, I'd also pick up a gently used T6 for daily use.

just my .02 cents


Well, I would want something anonymous mself. I'm really not into showing off what I've got, or don't.. But I'm definitely in the minority.


Agreed!

Actually, there's a lot more like us than you'd think.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
The real world advantage is that they are short front to back; a requirement for how Audo/VW configures it's Torsen Quattro/4Motion. This is the same reason they went from a front mounted timing belt to a rear mounted timing chain on the V8.

The W8 takes about as much room front-to-back as their V6. The W12 about as much as the V8.

They also sound completely awesome.


I should have been more clear. A similarly sized V6, with similar displacement, makes similar power. And, many V6 engines are extremely well refined, smooth and pleasant.